There's been plenty of speculation, but Steve Ballmer just dropped the quasi-bombshell at a shareholder meeting: "We've got broad initiatives driving Windows down to the phone with Windows 8." The choice of words is incredibly (if unintentionally) telling, but also a little vague. Like with tablets, Microsoft would rather cram a desktop OS "down" into mobile form, than build off of a simple mobile platform into something more complex. Of course, that's the least favorable interpretation, and Ballmer obviously didn't expound on these future plans, since there are plenty of Windows Phone 7.5 phones to be sold.
Since Windows 8 is already heavily indebted to Windows Phone, at least when it comes to looks and UI concepts, it's unclear if this is a true merging and unification of platforms, or just an extension and refinement of existing synergies — the latter sounds more likely, but with the Windows 8 core up and running on ARM, anything is posible. Meanwhile, Joe Belfiore, VP of Windows Phone, still sees a clear distinction between the operating system(s), so maybe Ballmer's really just talking about simple synergies: "Our point of view is, below, let's say 7 inches, and make voice calls, that's a Windows Phone. Above 7 inches, not making voice calls, that's a Windows device." Maybe 2012 will shed more light on this situation.
Update: Microsoft has clarified to Business Insider that Ballmer didn't say Windows 8 is coming to phones (contrary to some reports), and offered its own official transcript of the quote:
"We've got broad Windows initiatives driving Windows down to the phone. With Windows 8, you'll see incredible new form factors powered by Windows from tablets, small, large, pens, smaller, bigger, room-sized displays."
If you're down for a longer read on the matter, we covered Microsoft's march toward a single platform back in July.

Comments
Windows 8 will be great, I can’t wait to get my hands on it.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 1:56 PM EST reply Recommend (18) Flag actions
Cant wait to see how charms will be implemented into WP. The swipes from sides would be really cool too on a phone.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 1:57 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Really? Hey, while you’ve got that crystal ball out, who wins the pennant next season?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:05 PM EST reply Recommend (12) Flag actions
TIL, using a beta version of upcoming software and liking it = having the ability to predict the future.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:08 PM EST reply Recommend (19) Flag actions
I use windows 8 as my main os.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:14 PM EST reply Recommend (8) Flag actions
It’s good, but it has A LOT to work out before I can see it as my main OS. First off, it needs needs needs the ability to turn off Metro completely because people with multiple monitor setups really can’t make much use out of it and it’s rather annoying to use in only 1 monitor. Also it needs an easier way to shut down the computer. Half the time I used it, it took me a few minutes just to figure out how to turn it off without just putting it to sleep or locking it.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:41 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
They’ll probably take care of that during the beta. I quite like Aero and would not like using Metro on my desktop.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:59 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Agreed. I also have two 22 inch monitors and sometimes struggle to get out of the metro ui. I don’t have an issue with the new “start menu” as I do with the fact that I can’t easily close the whole thing after opening a Metro app.
The turning it off is also terrible. Don’t know who thought that’d be a good idea.
Posted on Nov 21, 2011 | 4:04 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I wonder how the public will take to the changes. Hopefully not a repeat of Ribbon-gate (I quite liked the Ribbon tbh). Maybe Windows 8 will have a halo-effect and boost sales of the phone incarnation.
I’m just hoping Microsoft tightens integration across their products. It’s been three screens and a cloud for quite a while now.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:13 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Why the past-tense with liked? The ribbon lives.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:55 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
steakwich is referring to his/her feelings at the time of the ‘ribbon-gate’ controversy. not to say that they have necessarily changed since.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 11:45 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
facepalm
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 1:57 PM EST reply Recommend (12) Flag actions
If that is to the retraction I agree. Hers is the audio of the event:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA9A13VJad0&feature=youtu.be
It takes some VERY creative listening to get the updated transcript from it.
If anyone is wondering why WP7 will be replaced by Win8 the reason is quite obvious. The WP7 license is about 1/4 the price of a Win8 license. If they allow WP7 on tablets then you are on a slippery slope to netbooks laptops and eventually desktops. MS can’t have that.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 5:01 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
But on the other hand, OEMs can’t hope to compete with Android or even Apple handsets on price if they have to pay $80 to MS per device.
The new world of mobile is a major problem for microsoft pricing.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 6:05 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I thinking (really more hoping,) that Microsoft will lower it’s pricing on the OS to around $30 or so like OSX. That, however, would still be way too expensive for a mobile OS though.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:23 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
it kinda boggles my mind that, many of you haven’t even thought that maybe they can charge less for mobile licenses, because that segment of the business doesn’t cost nearly as much to run?
or maybe that as far as actual devices, most people will buy a smartphone far more often than they will buy a new computer. think of the common 1,2 and three year contract periods around the world and how people get phones for free or subsidized prices.
people who have smartphones, generally don’t keep their phones for 8-10 years
Posted on Nov 16, 2011 | 12:33 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
That sounds like a bad idea…. I like WP7. I son’t like Windows. I think WIndows 8 looks really great on a tablet, but I really can’t see myself using it on a phone.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 1:57 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
You seem a bit short sighted with your thoughts.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:00 PM EST reply Recommend (20) Flag actions
*a bit short thoughted
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:24 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
*a bit short thunk
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:23 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I think it’s more akin to the Apple way of taking OSX and cutting out what won’t work on a mobile device ala iOS. I don’t think he means cramming a full desktop W8 on a phone. That would be stupid.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:13 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
It is Microsoft. Though I do hope they actually think this one out…
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:24 PM EST reply Recommend (5) Flag actions
Well that is why I said “that would be stupid.” ;)
Posted on Nov 16, 2011 | 5:17 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
With Tango being an incremental update and Apollo being a known and true successor (major upgrade) to WP7, one would think this is Microsoft just following their roadmap as WP7 — with aspects available today reflective in Windows 8 — is on its way toward being one ecosystem with different Windows devices, whether notebook or phone, supplementing one another or even depending on one another.
Many posting seem to be making it sound as if Apollo is being abandoned with a full version of Windows 8, like you’d purchase for your next notebook for instance, is just being scaled to the form. I think it’s much subtler than that, and it’s just an evolution of WP7 to 8 via Apollo (designed for that form specifically) and further connecting the platforms — back to the one ecosystem bit.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:14 PM EST reply Recommend (9) Flag actions
There is more to an OS than the looks and UI. Ballmer is talking about the Kernel and other underlying OS components that comprise windows 8. The Metro UI is just a shell which can be ported from WP7 to W8.
Till now Microsoft Mobile platform has been riding on the age old WinCE operating system. Ballmer and team want to port their mature Windows desktop Kernel and system components to the mobile platforms.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:23 PM EST reply Recommend (9) Flag actions
I do not know if you are right, but you sound smart and I like that!
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:53 PM EST reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
I agree with your synopsis. Very well thought out and written!
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:49 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Let me get this straight: You consider the Embedded WinCE age old, and go on to say that this is a bad thing. Then in the next sentence you applaud the merits of the Windows desktop kernel for it’s maturity. The NT Kernel has been around since Windows NT 3.1. WinCE embedded kernel was built around 2000. The NT Kernel in that sense is under hospice care. What is the advantage that an aging and (bloated) monolithic kernel brings to the table? If anything Microsoft should man up a actually build something new, that could be used in a future OS, instead of tethering themselves relentlessly to legacy architecture. They have proven time and again they lack the courage to do anything close to this.
I despise many things about Apple. but this is where they were a shining example of courage. They completely end of lifed OS9 and moved to OSX, and after that they moved to Intel architecture away from power PC.. Microsoft here is saying we’ve got Windows, and that is exactly what you need. One size fits all… The true benefit of this is that their new devices will be susceptible to the same malware, spyware and trojans that now plague their ecosystem. Playing it safe in tech is the most certain way to ensure that the world innovates around you.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:52 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
NT isn’t monolithic anymore.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:59 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
You know more than I do, but my guess is that Vista scared the brave out of MS for a good reason. Sometimes iteration is good for the bottom line. Ask the 4s.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 5:00 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Actually Vista had issues because it was the beginning of MinWin. Not easy to get a rearchitected kernel up and running.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 11:39 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Agreed, that is why it was brave. New is always scary/exciting to the end consumer.
Posted on Nov 16, 2011 | 8:12 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Why does this comment not have more recommends?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:14 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Windows 8 won’t use the NT kernel (according to the rumor mill) it will use the MinWin kernel (which is NT compatable). Or a varation of the MinWin kernel.
So when Blamer states that everything will run Windows 8, what he probably means is the NT and CE kernels are being replaced with the MinWin kernel. That’s at least my interpretation.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:22 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I agree.
p.s. Was “Blamer” intentional? haha
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:27 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
nope. darn lack of an edit button.
*Balmer.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:39 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Need an edit button here stat!
Posted on Nov 16, 2011 | 7:29 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
i can’t win. Ballmer. damn lack of edit button coupled with dyslexia
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:41 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
According to some MinWin is more of a philosophy, an ongoing project that continually gets folded in. That’s the same way Microsoft talks about Metro now.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 11:42 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend Flag actions
Uhm…. MinWin is not a kernel. It is a core set of underlying code that make up the basis of Windows operating systems. In fact, MinWin includes NT.
Posted on Nov 16, 2011 | 9:17 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Who wants to develop for Windows Phone 7 now?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 1:57 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Everyone. They are basically the same OS right now anyways. All of the code will still work, just a different form of the OS.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:02 PM EST reply Recommend (5) Flag actions
ok gemme some facts on that or are you just speculating? thought so.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 5:47 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Have you not been paying attention to Microsoft’s own Keynotes when they were promoting Windows Phone 7 at first released? You can make a Windows Phone app and have it work on both Windows 7 AND the Xbox 360 while keeping a great majority of the code unchanged. MSFT isn’t favored by developers just because they have the best development tools, they are also praised for their ability to keep backwards compatibility for years on end.
If there’s anyone you can trust with cross compatibility, it’s them (even with their failures).
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 6:07 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
The problem is, that they don’t support anything that the dominant platforms support today. Do you want to develop in C/C++ for the core engine? Tough luck, there’s no option for C/C++ on WP7. While most games that are out for iOS and Android share code at the core.
What they are betting, is that desktop app developers are lured into WP7 and that process is really slow… and there are less and less desktop app developers these days.
Posted on Nov 16, 2011 | 1:54 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
By everyone, do you mean “a rather insignificant fraction of developers”? Because that’s the actual reality.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:15 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
You assume a WP7 app won’t work in Win 8 ARM. Why not?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:03 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Same coding technologies, so I don’t get why people are like “Eeeeeeeee nooooo”
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:04 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Developing for Windows Phone 7 basically means developing for the Silver light based platform, the runtime for which will surely be ported over to Windows 8 phones and tablets.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:24 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Heaps of people, since Silverlight development is more or less there through WinRT and XNA expands to the 360 and supposedly XBox on Windows 8? Not to mention that Silverlight isn’t being dropped as a programming model since it is quite a fair bit apart from a browser plug-in of the same name?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 6:58 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
CE-Oh no he… wait, wrong site.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 1:59 PM EST reply Recommend (39) Flag actions
Haha.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:02 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I missed that :(
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:27 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Nilay, go ask AOL how much it would cost to license that headline.
And get Crapgadget back too.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:36 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I don’t get why this is a bad idea.
Isn’t iOS a desktop os crammed into the mobile form? It isn’t about the core, it’s about the shell. For example, Windows Mobile was based on a mobile core but the shell tried to be too much like a desktop OS so it failed.
Microsoft has shown with WP7 that they have learned how to build a proper mobile shell, I think the underpinnings are irrelevant as long as they can be made to perform acceptably.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:02 PM EST reply Recommend (16) Flag actions
Plus all of the Apps developed should still be able to work. I don’t know why people are freaking out.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:03 PM EST reply Recommend (6) Flag actions
Because it’s much easier to envision a desktop Unix-like OS shrunk thanks to its modular nature than envision the desktop Windows stripped down thanks to its monolithic nature. I’m talking system design here, not kernels.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:27 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
MinWin has made Windows modular by nature too. It might be a big blob that we see but it’s completely modular now underneath. NT can now easily be used at the heart of a light system.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:52 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
That’s why they’d be putting Windows 8 on a phone, not Windows 7.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:30 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Windows is not as monolithic as you might think.
Posted on Nov 16, 2011 | 1:57 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
iOS actually has significant differences from desktop OS X, many of which make it easier to develop for. Apple removed a ton of the cruft that’s built up in OS X going back to it’s origins as NeXTStep since they didn’t have to be directly compatible, and that’s part of what makes iOS great.
With desktop OSes, and Windows in particular, that very same “cruft” is why a lot of your applications run (the book “The Old New Thing” by MS’s Raymond Chen explains this well). This is why WinCE was a disaster (well, the desktop Windows UI on a phone was the other reason) and Windows Phone 7 is a lot better. WP7 is a more or less clean-sheet platform that incorporates technologies from desktop Windows but isn’t held hostage by compatibility with it.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:30 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I was thinking recently about how swapping works in Win8 to switch apps, if you’ll scale it down it to the phone form factor it reminds of N9 Harmatan UI. And because Microsoft and Nokia are working together on next iteration ow WP7 it makes sense, because for the moment Nokia is just taking and not giving anything back.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:03 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
This is pretty crazy, it’ll be awesome to see how this takes shape. I really hope Microsoft get the execution right :).
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:04 PM EST reply Recommend (5) Flag actions
Of course they will, it is Microsoft.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:04 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Microsoft aren’t exactly well known for excellent execution haha. Though typically they’ve done better with Windows.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:05 PM EST reply Recommend (5) Flag actions
Blasphemy. They already have the mobile operating system that basically is a minified version of Windows off the boot. Just a matter of working the features from that into the full fledged OS.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:06 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I think they’ve done a great job with WP7, but suddenly they’ve got everything riding on Windows 8. It has to perform brilliantly on every screen, that’s no mean feat haha.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:11 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Yeah tell me about it. One of my clients wants me to take the CMS I made them and make a UI for the desktop, phone, and tablet. :|
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:12 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Newb question. How did you develop the CMS?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:57 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
PHP, MySQL, HTML, blah. It is PHP OOP style. I am actually in a process of refactoring. Problem is that I didn’t realize how different they wanted the form factors.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 6:20 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Thanks! We just use access for our small business. Time to hit up some more Linda classes!
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 10:13 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Lynda even….Edit please!
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 10:14 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
With ARM tablet and phone hardware being so similar, I guess they figure if they can get it to perform good on tablets (which is a necessity) it will also perform fine on phones.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:14 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I love me some enthusiasm!
#nosarcasm
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:06 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I can’t imagine Microsoft putting the full-blown Windows 8 OS onto a phone . . . I mean, I can, but I really don’t think that’ll happen. Rather, I think MS will put a “lighter” version of Win8 into phones. For example, I don’t have any trouble imagining a Metro only Windows 8 phone, but I can’t fathom how they would have the desktop experience and desktop apps (programs for the overly sensitive) working well on a phone.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:04 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Ballmer probably meant the windows 8 kernel. They’ll share an engine, but the overlying UI will probably not try to do everything. MS learned some lessons the hard way, for some reason I don’t see them letting go of that so soon.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:08 PM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
That’s basically what Windows 8 ARM sounds like it’ll be anyway. Metro-only, even on tablets.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:57 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I see a glimmer of hope in this, that perhaps the tablets/phones will not have the “Desktop” area of full blown Windows 8. If that is the case, I’m excited because it means that the Tablet side of Windows 8 might not be as clunky and labored; a more WP7 experience which is what I love about the phones (LG Quantum user since January). It also means that Tablet/Desktop apps developed for ARM could run on phones which would REALLY be awesome. Just my 2cents of course.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:04 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
It would be a matter of placing a new UI on an app developed for the desktop and bada-Bing.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:05 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
BADA? BING?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:00 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I don’t believe WP7 runs on anything near a stock Windows kernel.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:05 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Correct. It’s mostly Windows CE6.0R3 with Cellcore and some other bits from Embedded Compact 7. The CE6 kernel is actually one of the reasons there are no dual-core Wp7 devices – it’s simply not supported.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:20 PM EST reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
WP7 uses the aged Windows CE kernel.
For WP8 they’ll simply be swapping in the Windows 8 kernel, which is far more modern and dynamic.
Here is a fantastic article that makes the case for the transition: http://hal2020.com/2011/11/04/windows-phone-8-and-windows-8-cousins-or-siblings/
It would be nice if the journalists at this site would do a bit of investigation rather than lazily engaging in snarky speculation.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:29 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend (10) Flag actions
Completely agree… especially with the last line.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 9:14 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I think all he’s really saying is that Metro is going to be the new toolkit for building apps. The kernal will become almost irrelevant. Unfortunately Metro sucks and is the antithesis of everything a rational person would want in a user inferface.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:07 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Bold claim. I’ve always rather liked Metro. Despite having disliked Windows for a looooonng time.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:08 PM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
Where is that “dis-recommend” button?
Obviously you still are building your house with mud and straw, because you are way in the past.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:08 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Press recommend again to ‘dis-recommend’
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:23 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
:-D
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:30 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend Flag actions
You’re calling a significant number of people irrational there pardner.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:09 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Wow. Metro is a beautiful, clean, modern and, most important COHESIVE and CONSISTENT design language.
I haven’t seen any other company (Google, Apple, ect) put an effort into unifying their many different services and interfaces around a single design concept.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 6:09 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Imagine how terrifying Balmer would be if he worked out?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:10 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Sorry… Ballmer
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:10 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
By ‘Windows 8 on a phone’, he means Windows PHONE 8, right?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:10 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I don’t know about you, but I read it as Windows 8. Do you have dyslexia by any chance?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:11 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Oooh! Feisty!!
Relax.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:12 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Awesome, this means Win8 will be even more optimized for all kinds of hardware. Soon we will be able to expect the same degree of smooth, flawless interaction on every Windows 8 device that we already see on Windows Phone 7.5.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:14 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
You’re seeing that flawless interaction WP7 because MS dictates what components OEMs can use in their phones, and unless they do that for desktops and tablets too it just isn’t going to be that smooth. There’s too many variables to account for otherwise.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:22 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
The ARM builds of Windows 8 will be quite tailored too. Maybe not to the degree WP7 is but the selection of components will be pretty limited by Windows standards. Windows 8 is smooth already even on the wide variety of x86/x64 systems out there.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:55 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Windows 8 already seems to be a rapid departure in terms of pure smoothness. Whatever Microsoft did, they are doing it right despite the wide range of hardware they have to support. I guess experience pays off.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:03 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Could Microsoft be the first to deliver a truly single-state experience? One ecosystem with apps, settings and personal data all consistent across all your PCs, your Xbox and your phone.
Seems to be where they’re heading with Windows 8. So exciting.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:14 PM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
Lots of horribly confused people here.
Current Windows Phone 7 is basically Silverlight on top of Windows CE. There is not that much to stop them ripping out Windows CE and replacing it with some of the lower layers of Windows 8 (kernel, networking, etc). Most apps would not even notice the difference if the Silverlight runtime remains the same.
I would guess that in the long term they would migrate to WinRT as the standard runtime for both Windows 8 Desktop, Tablet, and Phone.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:15 PM EST reply Recommend (12) Flag actions
Great post.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:33 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Don’t forget Xbox. WinRT can run a full-blown gaming experience like that too, it still supports C\C++ code – just written to a new set of APIs.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:00 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
that’s the idea with the MinWin kernel. which is already in Windows 8.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/report-thousands-of-references-to-minwin-are-in-windows-8-and-why-that-may-matter/10261
and probably replacing CE in Windows Phone.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:32 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:19 PM EST reply Recommend (8) Flag actions
Please tell me you have a link to the original video….I’m not sure where this is from.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:20 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Its the day he found out that Apple was worth more that Microsoft lol .
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:42 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
It’s even better with sound!
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 5:22 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Oops. Link – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 5:22 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Oh my god how have I never seen this? Psh, and Charlie Sheen said the amount of cocaine he did would kill other people. Obviously not.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:21 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Well if we’re busting out old Ballmer videos…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:18 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“Get on your feet…” ♫
I.
Love.
This.
Company!! Yeahh!!!
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:22 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend Flag actions
So if I buy Windows 7 apps then I have to rebuy them all again on Windows 8?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:20 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
assumptions…. facepalm
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:39 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Or, they could just be updated (if needed). For instance, you didn’t have to rebuy anything to get Mango versions of apps.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:01 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
But if you were on WinMo 6.5 you had to rebuy everything in 7
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:46 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Are you serious or trolling?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:05 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
No, you don’t have to rebuy any Windows 7 apps. You can access them through the desktop tile.
Your comment was worthy of the facepalm, not Microsoft.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:06 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Done!
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:20 PM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
WinMo looks like android
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:40 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Honeycomb!
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:06 PM EST reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
Prediction Windows phone 7.5’s successor will be windows phone 8. Then to the consumer its all windows 8..
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:21 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
He didn’t actually say Windows8 is going to be on the phone. Granted, a first read of it could lead to that conclusion, but he could have meant doing Win32 (or64)-like things on a phone via some kind of Win8 variant/architecture./framework. For all their work with form factors and stuff in Windows 8, I can’t see them actually trying to cram that much into a glance and go device.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:24 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Win32 is dead going forward. And WinRT works almost exactly like the Windows Phone architecture, just expanded.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:03 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Oh, hell, yeah!
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:25 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I think this was a misquote personally. You can hear what he actually said here http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AA9A13VJad0
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:36 PM EST reply Recommend (8) Flag actions
not entirely sure where his sentences end and start or where the commas go…very hard to decipher what he meant.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:39 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Thanks for the link. I hear the pausing being longer after the “Windows 8” than before, so to my ears I find the original quote plausible. What it means, though, is more likely that WP8 and W8 will both use the Windows NT kernel, as has been suggested elsewhere in this thread, and has been discussed on other sites as well. I believe ZDNet’s Mary Jo Foley discussed something along these lines a while back, and there’s this http://wmpoweruser.com/actually-windows-phone-8-will-run-on-windows-nt-kernel/ reference as well.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:03 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I think something people are forgetting is the way windows 8 handles tablets already. Currently windows will check what resolution and i presume size screen you are using when it loads and then will enable/disable features based on that.
So for example if you put win8 on a 7" tablet you would have no access to the desktop. anything above that would give you access to both if you wanted to use both. It also works in that you could plug the 7" tablet into your pc moitor and mouse/keyboard and then the desktop features would be enabled.
So if you put this on a phone then sure it takes a little bit more space but the stuff you cant use wont ever be loaded when you use it as a phone so it’ll still be fast. You could then have a dock for your phone that connected it to your TV or monitor and then you would have a full desktop OS running from your phone.
In the phone case you would have three layers of UI. so you’d have the current WP7 UI then if you had a larger screen the tablet UI would unlock and if you increase the screen size further then you get the desktop UI available.
There really isn’t any disadvantage to using the same OS across all these devices since Windows 8 has been designed from the start to support that. It does bring a lot of new potential though.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:39 PM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
Damn, I was just about to write that comment :-)
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:52 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Are you sure he really said that? Is he actually aware he said that? Was he drunk at the time maybe? Cause that’s a really dumb thing to do.
Why shrink a pc OS to fit a mobile phone? Why ditch all the work they’ve already done with Windows phone 7? Boggles the mind…..
Time for some fresh leadership at Microsoft..
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:43 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
So you can dock your phone and have a desktop experience.. See the article about AnandTech, and see the future.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:00 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
The MinWin kernel in in 8 is suppose to be highly compartmentalized, so it would seem you could strip out all the stuff you wouldn’t need somewhat easily.
And since WP& has no native apps for the most part the OS change would be transparent to the users
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 2:56 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Thats how I see it happening. I think around WP9 the kernel is going to be swapped from Win CE to a MinWin type kernel. The swap being transparent to end users as the UI would remain largely the same running the same apps.
Since they can build the Windows kernel for ARM as a small efficient and stable kernel on it’s own it makes sense to stop developing Windows CE.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 5:13 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
This should be updated. Ballmer was misquoted.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:00 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
This is a misquote of Ballmer. Here’s a video and transcript of what was actually said – http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/did-ballmer-just-say-windows-8-was-coming-to-phones-no-he-didnt/16282
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:01 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
This may be crazy enough to work!
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:02 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Seems he was misquoted: http://www.winrumors.com/ballmer-misquoted-microsoft-not-bringing-windows-8-down-to-the-phone/
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:03 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
If Windows 8 is to be build as a more complex form of the phone version, as Paul says, i could be really interesting.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:09 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
COURIER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:09 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Te courrier was the worse product every. No ecosystem, no platform, no hardware partners, siloed product… what are you talking about? Windows 8 FTW.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 9:36 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
This is a wrong interpretation.
Windows Phone is based on Windows CE kernel. It has limitations, especially when it comes to multi-core support. Windows CE is at it’s max limit right now.
Windows Phone 8, aka Apollo, will use Windows kernel. This is the same kernel that will be used in Windows 8. This kernel is capable of handling all the advanced features like multi-core, NFC etc… and Microsoft has already done the work to make it work on ARM.
The signs of these were always out there… Microsoft said multicore will come to Windows Phone with Apollo update. Also, ARM processors will be supported in Apollo as well.
read this for a better in-depth analysis.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/could-and-should-microsoft-change-the-heart-of-windows-phone/11164
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:10 PM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
The current version of Windows Phone, Manga (aka 7.5) is based on Windows CE 6 R3. You are correct when saying that it does not have multi-core support. Thing is, Windows CE 7 has already been released; in fact, it was released ~8 months ago. It happens to support up to 250 cores. IMO, it makes sense for MS to stick with Windows CE, simply upgrading from 6 to 7. Oh yeah – source: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded/en-us/evaluate/windows-embedded-compact-7-technical-specifications.aspx
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 6:06 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
supposedly the roadmap for Windows Phone and Windows is the MinWin kernel, Not NT or CE.
see example for MinWin in Windows 8.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/report-thousands-of-references-to-minwin-are-in-windows-8-and-why-that-may-matter/10261
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:29 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Well I’ve been hoping for a 7 inchish tablet/phone that I can use with a headset. It would totally be practical.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:11 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
A possible interpretation is WP/Windows 8 on a phone a la android/splashtop on the Atrix, perhaps sharing the kernel?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:25 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Ballmer was misquoted here. Everybody jumped the gun.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:29 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
This is a mis-quote – apparently the official Microsoft transcript of his speech has : “We’ve got broad initiatives, driving Windows down to the phone. With Windows 8, you’ll see incredible new form factors powered by Windows…” Where the full stop is matters…
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:32 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Pens? Are we missing that Windows 8 will be integrated into PENS?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:39 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I think it’s pretty safe to say that MSFT learned its lesson with regards to attempting to cram a desktop OS experience into sub-tablet form factor with Windows Mobile – the very existence of WP7 is proof that the company is committed to tailoring its UI paradigm to fit each class of device.
So it seems that either it was a misquote, or Ballmer was confirming Hal Berenson’s suspicions that both Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 will share a common kernel (as has already been mentioned by many commenters above). So long as this doesn’t lead to performance issues (and, as Mr. Berenson pointed out, this doesn’t seem likely) there’s no cause for concern – the respective UIs would remain independent. In fact. I would sat that the potential upsides, from consumer, business and technical standpoints, would make this a highly desirable development.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:39 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I thought Apple was heresy with Teh Enterprise types because they never share their technology roadmap.
Yet here we have the big guessing game —Kremlinology about Ballmer’s comments to investors — about what tech Microsoft will be using in 2012, now just 6 weeks away.
Developers, developers, … oops … investors, investors, Wall Street, we really love you!
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:42 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend Flag actions
Imagine the possibilities! Microsoft could put full Windows 8 on a phone and make it Metro only. If they did this they could technically make it so that when you plug the phone into a display/dock you could plug a mouse and keyboard in (or use the screen as a touchpad/keyboard) Atrix style and have full Windows and take all your desktop data with you and play with that data on the move via Metro apps.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 3:49 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Is anybody else waiting for win8 before they buy a computer? This OS makes 75-90% of the computers on the shelves right now obsolete. They will all have to be upgraded with touchscreens to fully support the OS. This idea of putting the OS on a WP is really intriguing to me. I have the WP7 and the thought of being able to upgrade to WP8 on my phone and try out the OS before buying is really great! One question – or maybe several? The comments above indicate that the OS may be scale-able to the hardware where it is installed. I assume that is like VGA is scale-able to your monitors capabilities. How will they put the total OS on a Cell Phone? Aren’t we talking about something like 40-50 Megs? Will I be able to e-mail pictures and open pictures I receive on my phone? Right now I don’t get the pictures cause WP7 phones will not do that. Anyway, this is a good thing; I think. That is if Windows will stop coming on the market with their beta version and waiting till a year or two later to introduce the real version ie. Vista.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:12 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
In related news, Ballmer also promised to “Bring pit stains down to the belt-line.”
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:20 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Why wouldn’t they bring windows 8 to phones? It’s supposed have an arm version and that will be running on tablets that will have the same processors that we have in our phones so it kinda makes sense. Who wants to make sense though?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:25 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Before I saw the update, I was almost ready to walk over to Redmond (From London, yes I can walk over water) and slap Steve Ballmer. I think they phrased that completely wrongly. They should have said “Metro” instead of Windows 8. Would have made more sense as well.
Does anybody remember the Chinese or Korean phone from, I think, last week running Windows 8? Anyone?
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:28 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend Flag actions
Does Balmer ever take a good photograph? I can’t say how many bad photos I have seen of him — but no good ones.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:32 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
If Windows 8 can run on tablets, I see no reason why it shouldn’t run on a cellphone. Get on it, MS.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 4:37 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Win XP could run on tablets,.. If you consider a third rate interface and horribly buggy drivers (N-trig) “running”. Does that mean you should port it to a cellphone as well? What does it do well? Sleep/hibernate? No. Energy efficient? The task Microsoft sees before itself now, is to convince the world that Windows 8 on tablets and phones, is a great idea, and solves all the things that Win7, Vista, XP all couldn’t. This is a big task.. I’d rather they spent the effort on something new than putting lipstick on a pig.
I write this on a Windows 7 machine., and 12 servers next to me all running Windows, except for 1 which is Ubuntu. I am no a Windows hater, I simply do not see the fact that full blown windows in its current iteration on a phone and a tablet is the answer to much of anything. I’d rather see quality Apps ported to the proper, future proof architecture, than legacy trade offs bolted onto an inferior product.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 5:04 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Windows 8 was built to be efficient and run on arm. Comparing windows 8 running on a cellphone to xp running on a tablet is a huge stretch. Microsoft could keep the interface concepts and designs of wp7 and make it so windows 8 would use that on cellular devices while running the tablet based interface on tablets. Under the hood things would stay the same.. Unless windows 8 is still a battery eating monster then it has to change all together just on that principle alone.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:05 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I may be alone in this predicament, but i don’t personally own any pens that I want to install Windows 8 on. At least, none that i know of.
Mr. Ballmer,
When your PR corrects what is reported, and the correction makes far less sense than the original report, really, you need to stop talking in public.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 5:22 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I wonder how many people will remember to install AVG on their phones ; )
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 5:32 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
From the rumor mill, it appears that everything (Windows 8, WP8, Xbox next, etc) will all be running off of the new MinWin kernel. Not the old NT or CE kernels.
Once again according to the rumor mill, MinWin is modular in design, unlike the NT or CE kernels, so one “simply” stacks the Windows APIs and runtimes on top of it, or the Windows Phone or Xbox APIs on top of it. All seperate from the kernel, unlike the current NT or CE kernels.
So when Balmer states everything will run Windows 8, he probably means everything will be MinWin
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 7:27 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Engadget’s title and story is clear that Ballmer didn’t mean Windows 8, but consistent Windows experience. Are you guys late with updates or just content to make fun of Microsoft and leaving it at that.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 8:05 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
@Paul jumped too early on this one. This is the kind of story I would think I’d find at Engadget but not The Verge.
Posted on Nov 15, 2011 | 9:37 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
One word, DRAWBRIDGE
Posted on Dec 12, 2011 | 5:35 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
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