While Windows 8's Metro overhaul goes a long way towards completely reinventing the OS, in some ways it hasn't gone far enough — there are still places where the classic Windows interface resurfaces. So why hasn't Microsoft fully adopted Metro yet? Microsoft design director Steve Kaneko sat down with our own Joshua Topolsky for an interview (see the full video at the bottom), and he says that while the company is committed to Metro's design principles, there are challenges that have made the transition difficult — he says that the large Metro style interface, designed for touch interaction, doesn't scale in an obvious way to software like Office that has a lot of dense information. While Metro attempts to eliminate what Microsoft calls "chrome" (superfluous design elements), he says that chrome has traditionally served a functional purpose in crowded applications, and the design team now has to express grouping and visual hierarchy with composition, layout, font scaling, and contrast ratios.
Kaneko also shares that Microsoft is becoming a more design-oriented company, and that it's working consciously toward unifying the look and feel of its products — something that some Windows users have pined for over the years. He says that "as designers, we knew way before we actually executed that we did have a mixed message to consumers," and that the Microsoft brand was fragmented because of an inconsistent design language. Now, he says that Microsoft's design community feels more confident, and that "we're not looking over our shoulders as much as we used to." (Presumably because designers may have been wary of skeptical Microsoft executives.)
Steve Ballmer hinted at the possibility of a Metro-style version of the next Office suite back in September, but we're still not sure when, if, and to what extent Microsoft's legacy software will be upgraded with the new UI. And while Kineko says the company is certainly thinking hard about how to implement Metro, just having the vision is not enough — by his own admission, it's all about execution now.

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Thanks for using YouTube! Looking forward to checking this out :)
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 1:42 PM EST reply Recommend (16) Flag actions
What’s wrong with vid.io/HTML5
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 6:13 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I can’t get it to pause and buffer like youtube. Slow internet. Nothing I can do about it.
Posted on Dec 18, 2011 | 2:37 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Microsoft has a design director? Seriously surprised.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 1:42 PM EST reply Recommend (12) Flag actions
I really hope that was a failed attempt at a joke.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 1:52 PM EST reply Recommend (51) Flag actions
This whole interview reminds me how Apple has forced and has been forcing the competition to up their game.
Step 1: Apple launches something new and everybody laughs at Apple (iPhone won’t survive, you shouldn’t be communicating with the phone (siri), iPad is just a big iPod, etc.).
Step 2: Apple does great and eventually the competition comes around to the fact that they just didn’t have any clue and scramble to ship something out.
Step 3: And when they finally come out with something similar, they start dissing Apple like it doesn’t know how to innovate (amateur hour is over, bunch of icons in a grid, etc.)
Rinse, repeat.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:12 PM EST reply Recommend (41) Flag actions
Nailed it.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:21 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend (9) Flag actions
Very valid points and thanks for presenting them in a non-fanboi manner. There’s no denying that Apple has come out with some groundbreaking designs and products in general and they have forced everyone else to up their games as well. A win for the consumers.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:33 PM EST reply Recommend (6) Flag actions
Step 1: Has nothing to do with the interview. Microsoft’s design strategy has been shifting for a long time, with Metro (their own invention) rearing its head in Windows Media Center, Zune, etc. The "ribbonized" Office came as early as 2006.
Step 2: Again I don’t understand what Apple doing great has anything to do with the interview. Kaneko is talking about a design philosophy that’s been for long been hatching at MS. It doesn’t sound like they’re "scrambling". Does WP7 or W8 or the new Xbox dashboard look like "scrambled" products to you? They are COMPLETELY different from anything the competition has to offer.
Step 3: How does this interview remind you of "dissing Apple"? I assume you wanted to express your undying love for Apple, but please try to stay on topic?
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:37 PM EST reply Recommend (50) Flag actions
Nailed it!
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:48 PM EST reply Recommend (26) Flag actions
Like I said, the interview reminds me of how Apple has forced its competitors to up their game. That was the main point.
The steps are just to list the sequence of events that happen every time Apple launches something new. And MS has very heavily participated in all 3 steps. Nobody can deny that. See Ballmer’s interview after the iPhone reveal or the latest dissing of SIRI, etc.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 3:06 PM EST reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
That’s all marketing gamesmanship.
Funny how when Steve Jobs says that nobody wants to watch video on their mp3 player (and then comes out with the iPod video) or that nobody reads books anymore (and then features iBooks prominently in the iPad launch) it’s never characterized as mocking-then-adopting, but rather as a shrewd manipulation of the market.
Business competitors always take shots at the competition, regardless of whether or not they truly believe their products are superior. That’s simply the reality of marketing.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 3:41 PM EST reply Recommend (20) Flag actions
Oh well since you listed the sequence of events you might as well add the last one, #4. After Apple launches something new and sells x amount of units and forces competition to innovate, many try and fail but one or two actually do innovate and open the market up resulting in consumers realizing that though Apple was first they didn’t necessarily have the best idea. Which ends by apple holding a small amount of the original products market and the other company has the majority. Not because Apple did a bad job, just that their ends up being more options and Apple doesn’t end up being the best one for most people.
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 3:00 AM EST reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
Actually, Apple usually isn’t the first to anything. Most of their products had some precursor, but usually the the idea never gained traction until Apple decided to implement it.
Posted on Dec 21, 2011 | 7:48 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Having expressed my undying love for Apple, I do want to say that I really like the new Windows phone (for what’s it worth). I have even recommended it to some people who have sworn off Apple products for whatever personal reasons.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 3:08 PM EST reply Recommend (7) Flag actions
It’s pretty funny how Windows Phone has unofficially become “Everybody’s Second-Favorite Smartphone Platform.”
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 3:44 PM EST reply Recommend (13) Flag actions
I think it’s firmly “That platform everyone likes but nobody is willing to go buy into”.
Myself included.
Posted on Dec 18, 2011 | 2:50 AM EST reply Recommend (6) Flag actions
I’m just wondering how that makes sense. You like it but are not willing to buy into it? Sounds like maybe you are too comfortable with your current platform you are afraid to make a change. Hopefully you get past that.
Posted on Dec 19, 2011 | 10:50 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I think that’s the best analysis I’ve heard on WP7 so far. I’ve shown my WP7 phone to all my friends and they really like it. Most have said they will seriously consider WP7 when their contracts end (except for one of my friends who loves custom ROMs and programs for Android). However, I’m not sure if they’ll switch because they have to make the jump from what they are comfortable with. I guess people go with the adage “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.
Posted on Dec 19, 2011 | 4:14 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
This is completely true. WP7 looks awesome I played around with one someone has in the office and it is a nice usable UI quite snappy… in short I love it. BUT and it is a big but I have probably more than $200 dollars invested in IOS apps and a lot of the one I actually use daily are simply not available on other platforms so there is no way I’m switching.
Also Apple is slow but does eventually make the updates that are true pain points with iCloud and proper notifications the things that really annoyed me are gone.
Posted on Dec 20, 2011 | 10:25 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
WP7 is the phone line that Apple users recommend as the first alternative to passive-aggressively diss Android. That used be the province of WebOS.
Posted on Dec 19, 2011 | 3:25 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
So your theory is that Apple users recommend WP7 not because it shares the same attention to detail and fluidity in interaction as Apple values, but because they want to hurt Android? Occams Razor man….
Posted on Dec 22, 2011 | 9:08 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“sworn off Apple products for whatever personal reasons.”
Really? “personal reasons”?? Is it not possible that someone has genuine objective reasons to not like Apple or their products? Can they not just get sick of something? Maybe they got over being treated with just too much condescention. …or they shattered three phones before they actually realised that it was poor design to begin with.
I think you may be a bit to dismissive of the opinions of others.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 3:56 PM EST reply Recommend (7) Flag actions
Calm down you overly defensive fanboy. Everything you mentioned qualify as ‘personal reasons’.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 6:13 PM EST reply Recommend (5) Flag actions
Shattered 3 phones before realizing it was an objective design. Not a personal reason.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 7:52 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
And I dropped my iPhone 4 twice on gravel, and it didn’t shatter (or get a visible scratch).
Which are my personal reasons on why the build quality is quite good, considering the glass body.
Oh and 3 times? Sure. Pics or it didn’t happen. I guess that’s why customer satisfaction level is so low with the iPhone 4.
http://www.intomobile.com/2011/09/09/apple-iphone-ranks-highest-customer-satisfaction-sixth-consecutive-year/
And why this highly breakable 4s sold less than the previous version.
http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/10/14/sprint.att.both.confirm.record.iphone.results/
In fact, I can hear millions of iPhone 4 and 4s shattering as we speak. And millions of people who like you are replacing them with new iPhones that will shatter and shatter again.
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 12:52 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Don’t you think your reaction is a overly defensive and a little ironic? You actually find it hard to believe that glass breaks when landing on a hard surface (particularly when that glass has 8 exposed corners)?
Pics, because it happens:
https://www.google.com/search?q=shattered+iphone+back&hl=en&prmd=imvnsfd&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=NTjsToqZMJObtwfSnd3vCg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CBQQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=643#hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=shattered+iphone+4&pbx=1&oq=shattered+iphone+4&aq=f&aqi=g3g-S7&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=16040l16040l0l16627l1l1l0l0l0l0l101l101l0.1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=c39d1386f84458b6&biw=1366&bih=643
Just because something sells (extremely) well does not mean it’s great or even good. Not to say that you can OBJECTIVELY call it one way or the other, but people are entitled to their opinion — and personal experiences. Why get defensive about it?
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 2:01 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Top gear was referring to dropping 3 different phones I think. Personally, I would buy a case after the first time.
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 1:51 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Sure it’s a little defensive, but most of the replies to the OP have been and it’s harder than the stories you read anecdotally would have you believe. It’s not regular glass.
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 6:44 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Speaking as someone who was very disappointed in the iPhone 4s but also as an objective person it’s obvious that Microsoft (and most of the tech market in general) is fully engaged with reacting to Apple’s success in the mobile space rather than innovating independently. It is fear of Apple that is causing them to screw up Windows in a major way. What is the value in a me-too strategy? A key indicator that this is the case is the difference in how Microsoft and Apple handle new product releases. Microsoft can’t wait to tell you about their iPad-like tablets but can’t promise that you’ll be able to buy one before 2013. What will an iPad look like in 2013?
Posted on Dec 18, 2011 | 9:03 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:56 PM EST reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
wtf was the point of that barrier? Seriously, wtf?!
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 4:18 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
This is Cyclocross. Peek it here: http://youtu.be/VRZOa_E9Qs8
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 2:06 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I agree that at some point Microsoft probably felt that they were lagging in the design department of their software due to Apple, but these days, I just find Apple products to be ugly and outdated – everything on OSX is that beige-grey colour, and iPhone/iPod has that usual blue/grey/white combo. I swear it’s the quality of the monitors that make OSX look good. Google is the new MS – everything looks like it’s been designed by developers.
Posted on Dec 19, 2011 | 9:17 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I was excited about iPad back when it was going to run OSX and was rumored to have wacom tech in it too so you could draw with levels of pressure sensitivity.
Then this big thing with a phone OS showed up and I laughed. I’m still laughing, I’m sorry, I don’t like tablets right now, because phones serve the purpose tablets do. Phone resolution is getting insanely high, and phone prcoessors are plenty-powerful. If I want a big screen it’s to get down and dirty, get some real work done. I’m not going to do that on a phone OS they way they are today, tablets needs Windows 8 and OSX before I’ll take them seriously. And even still, the most appealing tablets are the ones that make keyboards that attach to them, thus making it seem like tablet owners end up missing the keyboard?
Someone just make a laptop with a touchscreen and wacom stylus and I will buy it, no matter how much it costs. lol
Posted on Dec 19, 2011 | 3:21 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Someone just make a laptop with a touchscreen and wacom stylus and I will buy it, no matter how much it costs. lol
you mean like this one?
http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/laptop/thinkpad/xtablet-series/
I’m using it right now, and it’s amazing. I can’t wait to use Windows 8 on it.
Posted on Dec 19, 2011 | 8:45 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Step 1: Doing something in a more consumer-friendly way is not the same as doing something new. The iPhone and iPad simply took existing products and made them accessible to consumers. All of the criticisms of these devices have held up (e.g. iPhone eventually added multi-tasking, apps, MMS, etc.). Apple simply saw that there was no ‘nice’ smartphone and copied what was already out there (Windows Mobile/Blackberry/Nokia) and made a shinier version that made regular people realise that a smartphone was useful.
Step 2: Fanboy nonsense. All tech companies steal the better parts from the competition and add their own stuff to the mix. The iPhone borrows far more from the original Windows Mobile than, for example, Windows Phone 7 borrows from the iPhone. The most recent iPhone versions have copied features from Windows Phone (e.g. Twitter integration – this type of integration is the foundation of WP7, and is its main differentiator). Again, Apple, like everyone else, stole ideas and added their own to the mix – Apple’s additions tend to be making things simpler and more elegant and more consumer focused.
Step 3: I see nothing but praise from most tech companies towards Apple. Often Apple is criticised (rightly so) for being focused on control and style over substance, but Steve Jobs was well respected for his attention to quality and his vision. But, truth be told, for every product that Apple has made the competition has always come up with something better (except maybe the iPad, but in 6 months there will be Windows 8 tablets that will make the iPad seem like a 3-wheeled car).
Don’t mistake Apple’s tendency to spark the imagination of consumers with consumer-friendly products for innovation beyond that which many other tech companies also attain.
Posted on Jan 06, 2012 | 7:44 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
So you think revolutionary Metro UI came out from nothing? Hah..joke on you.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 11:04 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Oh wow, there’s a design director behind one of the cleanest/bold UI’s? Blown away.
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 1:58 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Listen to the interview. He is just the design director for Office. They have LOTS of design directors who all got together at an off-site retreat and decided to make Metro.
Posted on Dec 18, 2011 | 4:23 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Is that how it happened?
Posted on Dec 19, 2011 | 6:11 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Steve Kaneko is definitely better dressed than Mathias Duarte.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 1:48 PM EST reply Recommend (20) Flag actions
haha. anytime I see Duarte I always wonder why here wears that shirt.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:08 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
He also seems a little more humble and less condescending than Duarte too. That may not be a fair assessment as the context and setting of the interview is different.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:42 PM EST reply Recommend (7) Flag actions
Duarte is ME centric Kaneko is WE centric.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 7:02 PM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
THANK YOU! So I’m not the only one who noticed.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 9:10 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Mathias looks like a pimp
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 8:23 PM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
I love Duarte’s fashion sense
Posted on Dec 19, 2011 | 6:11 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
If Josh doesn’t say “poison” to this guy, I’m going to be seriously disappointed.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 1:55 PM EST reply Recommend (12) Flag actions
But that’s not fair, because this guy is trying to take MS’s old design out back and shooting it in the head. This guy hates MS old design too. There should be no beef with this guy. Metro is hot.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 9:09 PM EST reply Recommend (5) Flag actions
Regardless of brand allegiance, preference, or whatever, all this effort that Microsoft is putting into its products is making me really excited about what’s next. They are really starting to feel like a whole different company.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 1:56 PM EST reply Recommend (27) Flag actions
What’s really interesting is that, despite the fact that Microsoft is becoming more like Apple in terms of prioritizing design and the UX, it is doing so in a way that is completely opposite from Apple.
Whereas Apple does all of its development work shrouded behind a wall of absolute secrecy, Microsoft has made its development process almost completely transparent.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:05 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend (13) Flag actions
Agreed. As an example, the building Windows 8 blogs are epic in their detail.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:08 PM EST reply Recommend (17) Flag actions
But I’d say they are far more secretive about it since that where we get 99% of our info about Windows 8. There haven’t been that many major leaks recently.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:41 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Yeah, they are keeping a really great balance, I think. They keep it mostly secure and secretive so we can still get excited about it (one of Apple’s biggest strengths), but they are still keeping us informed about how much work they are doing.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:57 PM EST reply Recommend (5) Flag actions
“They keep it mostly secure and secretive […], but they are still keeping us informed.”

Posted on Dec 18, 2011 | 5:35 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Thank you. It’s not that the design is the different… it is the openness that is different. They are very open about their direction and design.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:12 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Not being known for high-quality design, Microsoft has nothing to lose and everything to gain by touting their newfound design savvy publicly like this. A bit of advice for Microsoft: show, don’t tell.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:14 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
Yeah, that’s true. Nobody thinks of MS’s design. They have traditionally been more utilitarian. I am concerned that MS don’t, at a fundamental level, understand how to talk to consumers. Their business for the last 30 years has not been in the consumer space at all. Compare that to Apple who can charge 40% more for a PC with the same hardware components because they know how to market to consumers on things other than the technology (e.g. the aesthetics, branding, outward quality).
I’m still waiting to see Microsoft’s WP7 advertising blitz…the OS is superior to iOS and Android in so many ways, and only behind in a few.
Posted on Jan 06, 2012 | 7:50 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
That’s always been the fundamental difference between MS and Apple; open vs. closed.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:30 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I disagree, somewhat.
I think there are two reasons for Apple’s secrecy: (1) By keeping things completely under wraps during development, they are able to do their “great reveal” of their products to great effect. If we already knew what was coming, there wouldn’t be near the same impact and excitement in the tech community. (2) As we’ve seen with quite clearly with Samsung, Apple’s competitiors are eager to match/surpass Apple’s design and tech specs in order to better compete. Keeping products in developement under wraps is a significant tool for delaying the ability of competitors to release “me too” products.
Microsoft, in terms of Windows 8, isn’t the industry-leading presence that Apple is in terms of tablets. Furthermore, even in terms of desktop OS I think there is a feeling that Apple is looking to do its own thing and has its own roadmap. Therefore Microsoft probably doesn’t have the same incentives to keep their ideas hidden from their competitors.
Also, I think that Microsoft is using their Building Windows 8 blog and these interviews in an effort to pursuade the media and consumer that they are producing products with elements of innovation and attention to detail that are worth getting excited about. With prior versions of Windows, I think the general feeling was the to the extent that Microsoft was innovating in their development it was primarily oriented towards enterprise deployment and manageability, with the consumer experience somewhat thrown together. With Windows 8, I think that the overwhelmingly positive vibe in the comment threads is an indication that people are geeing genuinely excited about the consumer experience on Windows again.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 4:04 PM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
What I meant was Apple builds the “whole widget”; hardware and software, even the retail experience. Microsoft’s OS is open to any vendor who wants to licence it, and is only a closed loop on certain things like the Xbox.
Apple uses this philosophy when developing products too. They do it all on their own behind closed doors. Whereas I get the sense that MS is fishing for public opinion and approval, or possibly vendor input by being so open about the development of Windows 8.
Posted on Dec 20, 2011 | 1:46 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Compare the number of open source projects for Apple and Microsoft.
Apple and Microsoft are very similar in openness. Apple is just better at executing. For now.
Posted on Dec 18, 2011 | 4:24 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I only hope that even as they start to compete with Apple in the real of design, they can bring quality and ease of use to the table as well. That’s always where I’ve had the least amount of confidence with Microsoft.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:32 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Kaneko looks and sounds seriously competent and the right man for the job. I like how he describes things without disclosing too much.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 1:57 PM EST reply Recommend (22) Flag actions
Yeah, it’s a shame he didn’t talk more about Metro Office though. I agree on his competency though.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 1:58 PM EST reply Recommend (7) Flag actions
You mean, he wanted to keep his job? Shocking! :)
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:00 PM EST reply Recommend (8) Flag actions
Are you saying that Tweeting about your company’s top-secret, unreleased and strategic products is not a good idea? ;-)
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:03 PM EST reply Recommend (6) Flag actions
It sounded like a good idea to me!!!
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:06 PM EST reply Recommend (7) Flag actions
Shouldn’t you be a mod?
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:59 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
He doesn’t officially work for The Verge until January 1st.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 3:13 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
He essentially confirmed it at the 16 minute mark, but I dont think thats saying anything we didnt already know.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 3:28 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Metro design as an encompassing feature on all MS products would be great. But the metro – desktop issues on W8 still need to be fixed. Productivity of metro on touch devices is great, on desktops, not so much, it hinders multitasking, it hinders speed, it hinders real estate, it hinders your ability to customize. I use W8 dev but even after weeks I still can not be as productive as in metro and I really really really really really really really miss my start key.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:16 PM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
“as in metro” = “as in desktop”, jesus why can’t you edit on this site
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:16 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Been using Win 8 dev preview as my main OS since September.
In tablet mode = great
In Desktop mode = love the speed and Metro-ized tools (Task Manager is great), but yeah I agree, is not really more productive and could use the Start key is more useful than the charms menu. I hope they redesign the Charms with desktop users in mind.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:20 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Redesign it in a way that detects touch though. So it can be different in each case.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:21 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
It’s hard to be productive in Metro when there are no Metro-style productivity apps. Heck, there are no apps at all!
I think it will be different when you have a large number of Metro apps that reduce your dependency of needing to go to the desktop to perform a task.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:35 PM EST reply Recommend (6) Flag actions
Yep, check back after the store goes up for the beta. We should see how this works a lot better then.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:38 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
The real productivity increase I see is when you’re able to gleam information from live tiles or OS notifications you used to need to switch to the app for.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 3:15 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I don’t understand the complaints about Windows 8 on the desktop. I’m using Windows 8 as my only OS and 99.9% of the time I use it it is indistinguishable from Windows 7 apart from a few welcome enhancements (ability to pause file transfers, ribbon UI).
The metro stuff doesn’t get in your way if you don’t use it!
Unless you use dozens of apps regularly you don’t even need to use the new Start screen, but if you do use the new Start screen it’s actually easier (and therefore quicker) to access the programs you need.
I think within a year or two the usual setup will be a tablet (around iPad size) running Windows 8 that can be docked to your desktop and serve as a second screen (using the metro start screen and fullscreen apps) while your main monitor (driven by the tablet) is used as a regular desktop for the usual desktop computing tasks.
Why are people having such a hard time understanding that the Metro stuff is not replacing anything or changing the way anything works unless you CHOOSE to use Metro apps instead of desktop apps? The only significant difference is the Start screen replacing the tedious old Start menu. I think you’re in a minority if you actually use the Start menu on Windows 7 for anything other than launching those applications you only need once in a blue moon.
Posted on Jan 06, 2012 | 7:59 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“Not looking over our shoulders anymore”… not too subtle a hint that under Bill Gates it was all about the bottom line ($$) and any attempts to unify the experience or become more design-oriented fell through. I mean, Bill KILLED THE COURIER (Bill Killed, heh). And I love Bill for his philanthropy work and like him better as a personality than Ballmer, but neither Gates or Ballmer were/are the right man for the job (that would be Steven Sinofsky, or heck, even this guy Kaneko)).
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:17 PM EST reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
I think the “looking over the shoulder” comment was a reference to being reactive instead of proactive. Its obvious with Windows Phone, the design team asked the question “How can we create a wonderful mobile operating system?” when before they would ask “What is Google/Apple doing and how can we stop market share loss?” The first question results in innovation, the second in iteration (at best).
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 3:14 PM EST reply Recommend (5) Flag actions
True but I think the second question has a lot more to do with sanshiro’s comment.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 7:05 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
amen. ideas are worthless. it’s the execution that counts.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:18 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Would it be more correct to say ideas are worthless on their own, and execution without ideas is equally unprofitable?
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:45 PM EST reply Recommend (11) Flag actions
Yes. Important distinction.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 3:02 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
after some thought, i have to say no, that’s not correct:
ideas in and of themselves have no value. they don’t make or cost much of anything on their own. it’s the execution of ideas—good, bad or ugly—that can cause wars and create fortunes. given the nature of randomness, even some poorer ideas can be profitable if executed well. i mean, this is microsoft we’re talking about, right?
execution without ideas is not unprofitable—it’s profit agnostic, if you will. it’s an iterative process. throw shit against a wall, see what sticks. in other words, that’s how evolution works. in that iterative process, poor (or maybe just sub-optimal) execution falls out of the sample, leaving only those above a minimum threshold of "fitness"—though subject to a hefty amount of randomness. so execution without preconceived notions* can be very profitable, profitable enough to argue about [SEE human beings]. it can also be heart-breaking [SEE ALSO human beings].
if you meant execution of poor ideas instead of what you said, you would be forgetting that to achieve success in the market requires some bit of luck above that minimum threshold, just like evolution. and since there are many executions of ideas, then some of those are bound to make it in the marketplace. they may not last long, but they can last long enough. leaded gasoline, for instance. and on an evolutionary timescale, the entire twentieth century may prove to be full of bad ideas.
*if you are a believer in some higher power or powers, then you could argue that the evolutionary process was created—but its genius was in that it would work over billions of years undirected, without any external interference. evolution actually is unintelligent design. anyone who tries to convince themselves otherwise doesn’t understand the nature of the process. and that’s fine. after all, a bird doesn’t need to understand physics to fly.
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 7:00 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I have nothing of value to add except to say that I really enjoyed the interview :)
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:27 PM EST reply Recommend (6) Flag actions
It’s awesome to talk to talk to designers instead of egomaniacs.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 9:08 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
ditto
Posted on Dec 19, 2011 | 6:27 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Anybody else…..really enjoy that interview?
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:37 PM EST reply Recommend (19) Flag actions
Not just you. I really enjoyed this interview.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:42 PM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
What interview?
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 2:45 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
yup, indeed. More like this please vergers.
Posted on Dec 19, 2011 | 6:26 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I guess if we named our sons “Steven” there’s a bigger chance they’ll succeed in the high-tech industry:
Steve… Jobs, Sinofsky, Ballmer, Kaneko…
Or virtuoso guitar playing:
Steve… Vai, Morse, Johnson, Howe, Hacket, Stevens, Lukather…
:-D
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 3:05 PM EST reply Recommend (6) Flag actions
also, bill “steve” gates.
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 7:03 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I really enjoyed this interview. These kinds of things keep The Verge above the fray.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 3:23 PM EST reply Recommend (8) Flag actions
This coupled with MS’s /build blog has me at the edge of my seat for Winodws 8.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 4:55 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
While Metro attempts to eliminate what Microsoft calls “chrome” (superfluous design elements), he says that chrome has traditionally served a functional purpose in crowded applications..
This is all the proof you need that they still don’t get it, and probably never will. Microsoft seems to think that staying ahead of the competition means looking different, even if it means throwing out everything that makes sense and “just works”. Its not about being fashionable: by most estimates only 20% of Apple fans are true zombies who will buy anything with a fruit on it. Its about software that’s easy to use and easy on the eye, and “Windows Metro” is about as far from there as you can get. The saddest part is that all of their recent “innovations” are old news. Live tiles? Update indicators and gadgets have been around for a very, very long time. I’m just about done hoping they’ll get their heads out of the dark place. At this point they deserve to become irrelevant.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 4:56 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
So because you don’t like their design parameters they deserve to become irrelevant? Wow, talk about being close-minded.
What is your experience of products using the Metro design language? I’ll tell you mine:
Windows Phone 7.5: All common tasks (map, search, messaging, etc.) are easier and more pleasant to use than any other OS/UI I’ve tried. Using other OSes after using WP is like going to the museum. Live Tiles not only are far better than plain icons and widgets (they are NOT the same thing), they are placeholders for future application content management and will become more important once more processing power is available in mobile devices (think of “livelier” live tiles). Live tiles give you content. An icon gives you a shortcut to the application that has the content. The potential of Live Tiles is clear.
Windows Media Center: highly praised, I doubt it needs any defending.
Xbox: new dashboard is getting good reviews. I personally love it, especially with Kinect support.
Windows 8: getting good reviews, perhaps mixed, based on Alpha software. The Metro UI is definitely a move in the right direction for tablets. For other form factors it will need some work to figure out how to make things Metro-esque without losing efficiency. That said, every productivity tool has a learning curve. People hated the ribbon, until the learned it and realize it can be more efficient. Same with a more Metro-esque re-design — it will take some getting used to but if Metro HAS WORKED in many cases, there’s no reason not to consider it, and not just because it makes them “look different”?
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 5:39 PM EST reply Recommend (8) Flag actions
Thanks for proving my points. A significant learning curve is only acceptable if the end result is better. Most people are at best indifferent about the ribbon and say its made no real difference in their workflow since they rely mostly on legacy keyboard shortcuts or context menus. A sizable minority despise it, as well as virtually every aspect of the post-XP design period. Every bit of opinion data published by someone who’s not one of Microsoft’s many front groups or sympathizers backs this up.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 6:52 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Oh, and as for Media Center being “highly praised”: I guess random microscopic thumbnails that you need a 50’ screen to identify and totally broken surround sound must be strangely appealing to some people. Maybe they watch TV with binoculars.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 6:59 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I have a 20" monitor and sit on my bed about six feet away and I can see everything just fine in Media Center. You don’t just rely on thumbnails, there is text as well smart one.
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 3:14 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
He’s not the only one who doesn’t like the design – it seems like very few people do. Microsoft has yet to launch a product with the metro UI and actually get people to buy it. Zune = failure, Windows Phone = failure. Take the average person off the street and show them a Web OS phone – they’ll almost unanimously tell you that the UI looks nice. Take that same person and show them Windows Phone – unless they’re a male tech geek, they’ll usually tell you it looks weird or they don’t like it.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 8:59 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Every woman in my family is in love with their Windows Phones, and most of them own the atrocious looking LG Quantum. I understand not everyone is going to like it, but the majority of people I show or know who owns one are very impressed by it.
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 3:18 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
failure in the marketplace ≠ failure of ideas. some things catch on, some things don’t. i would rather microsoft stick to moving us forward even if they are unsuccessful. and they probably will only be marginally successful, but at least they think different.
webOS was great. now that it’s being put out to pasture after being handled by the once great company that subsumed them, chances are it will never be great again.
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 7:18 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
are you serious?
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 6:49 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
I don’t think you really understand what Live Tiles are and how. They use essentially ZERO code/processor cycles, which means the UI can be very fluid (compared to widgets and applets that can really suck up battery power). Live tiles also tie the OS (both WP7 and W8) to the cloud in a deep, fundamental way. Live Tiles do a fantastic job of eliminating the need for running apps because they can present the information you need 90% of the time without actually executing the code (the work is all done remotely on the cloud), and this saves time, energy, battery power, effort, and efficiency. I have several phone apps that I never need to run because I just glance at the live info from time to time. I expect the same to happen with Windows 8.
Metro is not about fashion. Microsoft have clearly focused on usability and the technological challenges while also recognising that a UI needs to be clean and attractive to pull users in (this is the foundation of Apple’s success in a nutshell). It’s a great sign that Microsoft are looking at Apple’s success in phones and tablets and understanding WHY Apple’s products are popular with consumers. Microsoft have learned to be clean and slick rather than trying to literally copy Apple’s way of doing things (compare this with Android, which in many ways is a less slick copy of the iOS UI).
Full screen apps on a tablet, as on Windows 8 look great and feel right. These kinds of apps don’t need the complexity of a Windows-like OS. On portable devices users are doing one thing at a time, and therefore the apps can fill the screen and don’t need superfluous UI elements cluttering up the screen. Touch controls let the UI dispense with ‘chrome’ and the little ‘x’ in the corner, etc.
If you think the Metro UIs are not easy to use you are simply ignorant; they are proven to be very intuitive and easy – comparable or better than iOS and Android. If you think they are not easy on the eye then that’s your opinion, but it’s clearly not a common one – most people like the look of WP7 and the Metro parts of Windows 8 and Xbox (not to mention the Zune software client, WL Messenger, etc. that use Metro elements).
Posted on Jan 06, 2012 | 8:15 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I am amazed by the amount and especially the quality of original content that the Verge publishes. This is really awesome guys, keep it coming!
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 5:58 PM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
I’m not sure Microsoft is ready to enter into the post-pc paradigm.
What they’re doing with Metro is smart and savvy, but they’re far too encumbered with backward compatibility and being beholden to corporate IT.
They are capable, though. What they’ve done with XBox is solid work, but I think Windows is always going to suffer from trying to move forward while it has one foot firmly planted in the past.
Also, because Microsoft doesn’t control the product end to end, Windows will always suffer from the same problem of fragmentation that Android does. When your OEM partners can do whatever they want on top of what’s already been built, there is absolutely zero consistency of user experience.
So, we shall see what the future brings.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 5:58 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
wut? Its not like HP or Dell pus a skin on their PCs…they may have an application, but anything they add can be removed or turned off. its not like android at all.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 6:50 PM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
though to be fair there have been touch optimized skins,
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 7:07 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Indeed…but they are nothing more than an app.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 7:58 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Launcher plus if you will.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 7:59 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Um… Why would I want them to NOT be backwards compatible? I see that as the issue with tablets. I want REAL photoshop, video editors, 3D applications, longer games that are less of “time-wasters” and more “epic.”
Skyrim or Angry birds? I think that sums it up pretty well.
“Random photo editor” or Paint Shop Pro?
123D Sculpt or ZBrush?
Maybe I’m a “nerd” by today’s standards, and all the hip people want to do a lot less, but tablets, and this concept of “post-pc” are the dumbing down of the user experience in my opinion.
Posted on Dec 19, 2011 | 3:28 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
*other note, in regards to “dumbing down” comment above, the touch interface is definitely an advancement, but tell me you really think that can’t be implemented into OSX? And windows 8 is already working on it, Linux already has a lot of promising touch enabled elements as well.
Posted on Dec 19, 2011 | 3:31 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
This is why Windows 8 can be both a tablet PC or a regular PC. The average user may never use the Windows desktop underneath – they don’t even need to know it’s there. In fact, it’s likely that on consumer tablets the desktop ‘app’ won’t even be available.
I think Microsoft’s approach is the better one. Instead of having a device like an iPad that sits in between your PC and phone as a 3rd option (that is not really able to replace a PC entirely), Windows 8 gives the user the option to have either a tablet, a desktop PC, or both in one (e.g. a dockable tablet or convertible laptop). Even a Win8 tablet will have apps that can access the underlying OS in a way that iOS doesn’t allow (e.g. the file system). Windows 8 may just be (fingers crossed!) a fully fledged OS that can be easily, intuitively controlled via a beautiful touch interface, and is therefore ‘scalable’ to be as complex or as simple as each individual users wants/needs.
The Metro UI is certainly easy to use and pleasant enough for consumers (my WP7 phone makes iOS seem quite fiddly in comparison), and as long as MS can get devs on board I can’t see any problems.
As far as fragmentation goes, I expect Windows 8 will follow a similar road to WP7, which will be a middle ground between the open Android way and the totally closed Apple way. Win8 tablets will probably have fixed resolutions, minimum processors, minimum RAM, minimum storage, etc. Win8 PCs (i.e. non-tablets) will probably come in all shapes and sizes still.
Posted on Jan 06, 2012 | 8:25 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Design unification? Metro does not unify standard controls. That’s one of it’s main failings. It also doesn’t use windows. Which is messed up when the name of the OS is Windows. It’s like they assume everyone always wants to run everything full screen maximized on every device no matter how big the screen is or how far away they are from the screen. Metro is a huge step backwards in UI design.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 6:38 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
not in a touch sense or in a gaming system.. And thats what Windows still exist when you step out of Metro.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 6:51 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
That’s not unification. That’s a niche and that’s my point.
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 8:48 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
As plain as the nose on anyone’s face – well, anyone who isn’t either a fashion victim or a Microsoft cheerleader.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 6:54 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Metro on my Windows 8 PC looks very similar to Metro on my phone, which looks very similar to Metro on my Xbox.
They all share the basic ‘tile’ look, they all use the same font and text style. They all ‘behave’ according to the same ‘language’ of use (that’s the best word I can think of to describe the Metro paradigm – the way things are organised from left to right in screens/tabs based on context, the way items are highlighted, the overall style used, charms on the bottom/side of the screen, full screen apps on all three platforms look the same).
The dialog button controls on Windows 8 are the same plain rectangles with the same monochrome text as on my phone. Everything fits together very well in my opinion. Most of Microsoft’s own apps (and websites too) are designed in the Metro style as well (e.g. the Zune software looks a lot like the Xbox dashboard, and Windows Media Center is clearly an early version of the Metro UI). There is some compromise in that the three devices I use Metro on are fundamentally very different things controlled in very different ways, but if my devices weren’t all different why would I need three different ones?
Of course once you’re in the traditional Windows desktop you get whisked into a very different UI, which is both unavoidable and largely addressed. Win8 treats the desktop like an app, so the underlying Metro style still pops up (e.g. the settings panel that slides from the side of the screen and the basic control panel are total Metro). Of course Microsoft expects users to be gradually weened off the desktop as more and more apps get ported over to the Metro/touch first look.
But given the alternatives Microsoft are surely making the right choice. They can’t stick with an outdated paradigm simply because it’s what everyone is used to, and they certainly can’t abandon the UI that 95% of the world’s computer users are familiar with and rely on for their day-to-day work and play. So They’ve created a new UI with a new language for the future while taking some baby steps away from the old way so that people can still get their work done.
As for running all apps full screen – on a tablet this is reasonable, but Windows 8 is the only tablet OS that I’ve seen that lets you run two apps side by side (I’m pretty sure iOS doesn’t do this, and I know my Android tablet can’t). The Windows desktop can of course run as many apps on one screen as you want, so I don’t see any issue here. If you want to run windowed apps use the traditional desktop that was DESIGNED FOR IT. If you want a simple interface that lets you control things simply with your fat fingers the Metro UI forces apps to run full screen to make this work better. It’s an elegant compromise.
As for the name Windows, you can’t expect Microsoft to abandon their branding just because it’s a bit dated. It’s petty to criticise that. It’s common in the English language for words to lose their meaning due to context. Not an issue at all.
Can you honestly look at side-by-side comparisons of Windows, Windows Mobile, and Xbox from 5 years ago and today (well, tomorrow for Windows 8) and say that Metro has taken the Microsoft UI backwards?
Posted on Jan 06, 2012 | 8:48 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Josh, so far I’ve only watched the two exceprts, but I’d like to compliment you for conducting a professional, respectful interview with a Microsoft spokesman. Sometimes in past podcasts, I think your “inner snark” has surfaced a bit quickly when a Microsoft product is discussed. Certainly Microsoft often deserves criticism, but it’s refreshing to hear more respect in tone on The Verge.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 6:47 PM EST reply Recommend (6) Flag actions
So far that seems to be the way this site is going. I’m sick of Engadget, Gizmodo, etc. and the cult of MS hate. It’s like every word those sites writes is dripping with MS hatred and Apple fanboyism. Even articles that praise MS on the surface manage to be carefully worded so as to tarnish MS and/or praise Apple.
Here it seems that everything is a lot more rational and balanced.
Then again, there is clearly a lot of anti-MS stuff in the comments.
Posted on Jan 06, 2012 | 8:51 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Great interview
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 8:41 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I don’t understand Microsoft’s love affair with Metro. They shipped it on Zune, Zune was a failure, they shipped it on Windows Phone, no one is buying them. How is it then logical for them to say “Wow, people must really love our Metro design since no one buys the products, let’s put it everywhere!”
In my (albeit limited) experience, people who see Metro for the first time are usually confused and/or put off by the text truncation and the lack of customizability. Specifically with Windows Phone, most people seem to dislike the large black vertical bar on the right side of the home screen which is apparently just there to waste space.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 8:54 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Yeah, I’ll take the opposite stance. I don’t think you should look at sales and make decisions based on design there. Anyone can see that Metro is an attractive look, even if you don’t want to see it on your phone, etc. It’s attractive, and VERY DIFFERENT from the market leader (Google is basically mimicking Apple’s design, so you can go ahead and lump them together). That’s the key. If MS is going to pull this off, they can’t be copying, they have to do their own thing.
I could spend a few minutes outlining why Zune failed, and WP hasn’t picked up serious share (I won’t bother unless The Verge wants to pay me), but suffice it to say, it’s not because of Design. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Their design is pretty damn good. Slap it on a product with a good marketshare (Windows), and I think the unwashed masses (teasing) are going to be very impressed.
Windows 8’s only problem is this: people don’t buy touchscreen laptops.
What did Apple do? Make a Gorilla Arm Lappy? Nope, they integrated touch into the trackpad. Windows hardware partners would be smart to swallow their collective pride, and follow Apple here. You want to swipe left and right? Screw touch-displays, they’re a pain in the ass; do it on the trackpad.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 9:07 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Personally I don’t think that metro is particularly attractive…..it’s not terrible, but it doesn’t wow me. Just because you say that anyone can see it’s attractive, that certainly doesn’t make it so. In fact, I would wager that if you surveyed 1000 random people on the visual appeal of all of the smartphone OSes available today, the ranking would be something like this:
1) WebOS
2) iOS
3) Android (gingerbread, no skin)
4) Blackberry OS
5) Windows Phone 7
If you included skinned versions of Android, it would probably fare better in my opinion. Another issue with Windows Phone is the lack of customization available – try telling a female phone buyer that she can’t set a background image on her home screen. I’m not being sexist, I’m just being realistic – I don’t see Windows Phone’s aesthetic appealing to women AT ALL.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 9:21 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Skinned versions of Android would make it fare better? Blackberry OS over WP7??
I think I’m going to faint.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 11:53 PM EST reply Recommend (5) Flag actions
Ya absolutely…that’s part of the reason they skin it in the first place, to give it more visual appeal and consistency. Remember, I’m only talking about aesthetics here…stock gingerbread isn’t much of a looker, especially if the person doing the comparing happened to open the stock media player – that thing looks like it was written by a middle schooler over a weekend.
For blackberry, you’re probably right…though if it was QNX instead of OS7 it would probably come in above WP7. Some people really love the look of WP7, dont get me wrong, but a lot of people don’t…and having such a polarizing design for what is supposed to be a mass market product just does not seem like a sound strategy to me….but I guess we’ll see with Windows 8 whether they can win over more people
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 12:05 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Manufacturers skin Android for product differentiation, the problem is that it’s never very good in my eyes. And it is the source of update delays taking months to complete.
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 1:20 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I’m sorry but I have to disagree 100% From a design perspective I know absolutely no one that believes in your order.. Windows Phone 7 is just a breathtaking piece of design. I can’t use it personally, cause it’s just not ready enough for me to step away from iOS (or Android), but I defy anyone to point their phone to http://m.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/demo/index.html and not be envious.
I’m not going to bother to go into all the OS’s, as I have issues with them all, but please – BB OS has horribly designed icons, poor use of typography, icon titles from Stock (!) that don’t fit and end in ‘…..’. it’s a huge mess. The experience is just horrible…
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 8:20 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Ya…good point, on further consideration I would move it down a notch….
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 12:07 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
WP7 looks lovely in pictures but I find it very confusing to actually use. The icons don’t look different enough; it’s all too abstract. It’s almost too good from a design perspective; it looks very ‘designed by designers,’ if you know what i mean.
Posted on Dec 18, 2011 | 10:21 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Also, you deserve the Mother Theresa award for including WebOS in a conversation about Existing Mobile OSes. :)
Okay, maybe the design is crap, but I think it’s pretty cool. If you’re a Design major you’ll probably gag at the overuse of Helvetica, but…okay, it’s an opinion thing. HAVING SAID THAT, I guess the only thing we can agree on is that Design Consistency throughout all MS products will be a great thing (hint:multiplicative effects/free advertising). I’ve never owned a Windows PC in my life (no I don’t have an Apple tattoo), but I like Metro. If I was at MS, I’d call Windows 8 Arm “Microsoft Metro”. or Metro OS. It’s NOT Windows. And it’s hot.
Posted on Dec 18, 2011 | 11:31 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I’m sorry my man but Windows Phone doesn’t use Helvetica…
It uses Segoe UI.
You are very right on certain things although I disagree with u on the ARM stuff…
Believe it or not the Windows branding still has a lot of international value and from a technical stand point it IS Windows.
Much Love!
Posted on Dec 19, 2011 | 12:00 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
WebOS at the top, seriously? WebOS is half delightful, half totally ugly (I have a Touchpad, which now runs the slightly more attractive Android). I’d switch WebOS and WP7 on your list (I have never used Blackberry OS though, so I’m judging that on limited knowledge).
In my experience people love the look of WP7, but the main barrier is, as 21tiger said, that it is very different to iOS and Android. People understand iOS, and to most people that is simply what a smartphone is; anything different requires a learning curve, and becomes counter-intuitive just because it is not the what people are used to (e.g. people on my phone can’t find the Facebook app because I don’t have the Facebook app, my phone has Facebook functionality built into my ‘contacts’ screen), but the average Joe now expects that everything is done with discreet apps.
As for customisation, WP7 is actually very customisable. Wallpaper is one lacking feature though (although you can have a custom lockscreen or one that changes as you listen to music).
Your live tiles can show pictures of you and your contacts, the last artist you played in the media player, the weather, your sports team’s results, notes, favourite contacts, recent social updates, your pinned apps, pinned media (your favourite artists, songs, etc,), your Xbox Live avatar, etc. I think I can say quite objectively that compared to my friends with iPhones and Android phones my homescreen says a LOT more about me than a few rows of icons and widgets.
Posted on Jan 06, 2012 | 9:05 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Wow. Kaneko is so well-spoken, down-to-earth, and humble in this interview. Infinitely more likeable than that brash doofus Ballmer. Good hire, MS. Good hire.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 9:02 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
You realize that he’s been with Microsoft since 1991, right?
Posted on Dec 18, 2011 | 10:28 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
wow that guy looks just like my Grandfather i think it is time to give Grandfather a call & give him the good news!!!
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 9:39 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
here is my take on this interview and MS in general.
I think the next 10 years will see MS as leaders in almost every technology. no one remembers that it took apple 4-5 years to design the original iphone and it wasnt until the 3GS that it was a proper smartphone.
before MS would sell any old crap knowing that people “have to” buy it. but with Macs growing in popularity, they need to do really well with Win8. i am happy about the fact that they are not rushing things anymore (not that vigorously anyways).
unlike a lot of people though, i will buy whatever product that solves my problem at the right price. i dont care what the label reads. unless it’s a chromebook.
Posted on Dec 16, 2011 | 11:12 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
You may be right. People seem to often miss that Microsoft play a very long game. They’ll let competitors build markets and then come in with something better (whether better is actually a better product or simply more appropriate for the market).
I can’t read the minds of consumers, but I can’t imagine anyone wanting an iPad once Windows 8 tablets become widespread. Windows PCs will obviously be king for the forseeable future. WIth phones it’s going to be tough to shake Android though. I think it would take a miracle of synergy for WP7 to overtake Android. I believe WP7 is WAY better than Android (and I do use them both), but you could argue that the Macintosh was better than the IBMs of its day, but look what happened there.
I think if tablets remain a separate form factor from PCs then Android will own that market, but if people start to buy tablets INSTEAD of PCs or buy devices for hybrid tablet/PC (e.g. via a dock) then Windows 8 will win that market.,
In phones I think Android will continue to dominate and WP7 and iPhone will be battling for 2nd place with about 10-15% marketshare each unless people love Windows 8 and Xbox enough to start moving to WP7.
Xbox is clearly dominating the console market, and with the new dash/apps and Kinect that will continue..
Posted on Jan 06, 2012 | 9:13 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“Presumably because designers may have been weary of skeptical Microsoft executives”
Pet peeve, professional writers who make mistakes like weary instead of wary. :(
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 2:23 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Also, no he was talking about not being reactive or comparing, having a clear forward looking vision.
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 2:25 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Video looks really good. I wish there was some audio work done. Some compression, EQ some crispies into Steve’s voice, and some warmth to Josh’s
Posted on Dec 17, 2011 | 4:47 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I’m very interested in how Metro will scale to these more complex productivity apps. I hope that Microsoft realizes that Word for instance really is too complex. The whole concept of “documents” where the style and layout is so tightly coupled with the information in the document is totally flawed in this day and age. The few times at work when I need to produce a Word document, it feels like I’m going back in time. To create this isolated document that will be printed on a piece of paper, just seems old and wrong.
Posted on Dec 18, 2011 | 1:49 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Let’s just say this: Microsoft has found an answer here, and it lies in the MASSIVE MS Office business. They don’t wanna give that up. They don’t want to sell Office apps for 10 bucks a pop, like Apple does. Their stock would be crushed.
On the other hand, they’ve been very critical of Apple and the iPad, etc. So how can they do an about face and port all these Apps to their iPad killer?
What they’re going to do is do a watered down Office companion apps (maybe they can read + basic editing). If MS Office costs about $50/app now, then MS can hit its $10/pop pricepoint by having 1/5th the features.
That way it doesn’t cannibalize sales of office, and MS don’t look like hypocrites, they can maintain the stance that ‘no real work’ can be done on an iPad, etc. It strikes a nice balance between revenue pressure and the limited functionality of a word processor on a keyboard-less device.
Posted on Dec 18, 2011 | 11:35 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Metro firstly is basically a dummied down version of Dieter Rams: ten principles for good design which one should point out is what Apple has copied as well, so its not like there is leaps and bounds in design innovation here.
Furthermore the influence of the design discussion derived from Apple culture, specifically in around the notion of attracting design audiences to Microsofts ecosystem so whilst the principles opt for a design minimalism / focus on content and typography approach – it has little do with a design cultural shift within the brand more to do with providing a developer oreintated solution delivery with more HTML like existance – thus providing an extended platform for the app developer/designer pipeline to adopt and embrace.
That is to say, simply put, “we provided colored wireframe approach to design, because developers can easily paint by numbers in their design(s) in the event no designer can be hired. In the event a designer is hired we’ve also made it all simple enough that HTML skills should transfer over to our device desktop / development but with a more locked in approach – aka embrace & extend”.
Still, designers are giving the development<→design pipeline a wide berth and Metro as a UI/UX concept is dating fast simply due to the developer base mutating these principles into a cookie-cut format reducing individualise in composition whilst at the same time creating consistency in lifeless creations ( Wow Effect.. first 10seconds you “wow” …10 days later, wow still in place?…"
When I was a product manager @ microsoft, we lived/breathed Adobe and Apple. Its a fact.
Posted on Dec 20, 2011 | 1:15 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Your thoughts on WP7 apps exactly. I didn’t like what you were saying, since im a WP7 fan, but i couldnt help but agree you. Most of the apps do feel as if they are too focussed on consistency and faithfulness to metro principles over real utillty (eg. whatsapp); many of the ones that provide good utility are very “unmetro” in design. However, one beautiful exception i must point out is the app MetroTube which is simply the best YouTube client ive seen in any smartphone, and it integrates with the metro design quite well, especially stuff like pinning favourite channels or subscriptions to the start screen.
Posted on Dec 20, 2011 | 3:47 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
It’s definitely true that many WP7 apps are not as beautiful as they could be but simply cookie-cutter implementations of the stuff in Visual Studio’s templates.
But this is not a limitation or problem with WP7 or Metro. It’s lazy developers. Look at Kindle, IMDB, or eBay for apps done well that have their own identity but also fit perfectly into the Metro design and language.
A big issue facing WP7 is that the devs have been porting over their Android/iOS apps and not taking advantage of the differences of WP7, so they stick to the basic default UIs. The devs don’t yet understand how to integrate their apps into the data-driven paradigm of WP7 (or the APIs are not yet open enough). For example many apps don’t have live tiles where they are natural live tile candidates – I can’t pin a Kindle book to my start screen for example, and the Kindle app doesn’t display a live tile of the current book/page…this is because these apps are mostly ported from platforms that are fundamentally in a different mindset, and/or the devs haven’t really thought deeply about how to take advantage of the WP7 platform to make their apps more useful.
Posted on Jan 06, 2012 | 9:28 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
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