In a comprehensive piece of reporting, The New York Times has laid out a strong case that Apple has not pursued safe and fair working conditions at its supplier factories in China as strenuously as it could have. Citing both current and former Apple executives, the NYT details dangerous labor conditions at Apple suppliers and lax oversight from Apple itself. The core of the problem stems from a fundamental conflict between Apple's demand for low margins and fast turnaround with suppliers' need to cut corners to meet those demands — often doing so by sacrificing worker safety.
In one example, after an explosion at a Foxconn factory caused by aluminum dust, Apple did not require consistent ventilation standards across all its supplier factories, which arguably allowed another explosion to occur at a different factory. A safety expert cited by the NYT called Apple's policy here "gross negligence," adding "We solved this problem [of properly ventilating dust] over a century ago."
Although reports of poor working conditions have come out of Apple supplier factories before, now former Apple executives have come forward, albeit anonymously, to criticize the company's supply chain policies. Apple's famously strict control over the supply chain, driven in no small part by CEO Tim Cook, demands perfect products and slim margins. However, executives and workers' rights organizations say it doesn't extend into working conditions as much as it could. Citing the conditions, one former executive said they exist "because the system works for us. Suppliers would change everything tomorrow if Apple told them they didn’t have another choice."
Apple claims that it works to improve and monitor conditions, most recently publishing an audit that revealed underage workers and involuntary labor. Although Apple has performed inspections and audits at an increasing rate since beginning them in 2005, the question of whether or not it genuinely would drop major suppliers — especially Foxconn — doesn't seem to have as clear an answer. One former Apple executive said, "Noncompliance is tolerated, as long as the suppliers promise to try harder next time. If we meant business, core violations would disappear." Former executives say that Apple has only terminated relationships with 15 suppliers since 2007, a claim which seems to verify the lack of teeth in Apple's compliance policies.
Foxconn, of course, denies that it has a problem with working conditions, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. Although the effectiveness of Apple's policies are dubious, it does claim that it has seen improvement in labor conditions at the factories it audits. Other technology companies use the same suppliers and face the same issues, but claim they offer more transparency than Apple and, more importantly, less pressure on profit margins.
Apple has just had its greatest and most profitable quarter in history, and actually the best quarter of any tech company ever. If even a portion of the NYT piece is true, some of that profit has come at a very real, very human cost for which Apple shares culpability because of how it oversees its supply chain. Some of that blame also belongs to us, the consumers, who purchase technology products and don't demand better labor practices from the companies that supply them. As a current, anonymous Apple executive points out: "right now, customers care more about a new iPhone than working conditions in China." Whether that describes you or not, the full article is worth a read.

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Hopefully some of their quarterly earnings will go towards safety upgrades and better wages for its workers.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 12:54 AM EST reply Recommend (19) Flag actions
Indeed! I for one highly recommend a more pervasive deployment of the anti-suicide netting girding buildings.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:07 AM EST reply Recommend (7) Flag actions
Indeed! And how about TWO cookies for workers when they pull them out of beds at night to completely shift the production line in 96 hours again.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:11 AM EST reply Recommend (18) Flag actions
People need someone to blame & why not one of the most successful companies in the world right now. If HP was nearly as successful right now, the target would be on them.
In the end, this is how I see it, Foxconn & these other manufacturers are not owned by or exclusive to Apple for the most part. These aren’t Apple owned manufacturing companies. They need to monitor themselves better & the flack needs to fall on these manufacturing companies far more heavily than the people who ask for their products to be made there.
No one get’s on Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo for selling games through GameStop because most GameStop employees are sometimes overworked and underpaid. It’s GameStop’s responsibility to make sure their sh*t is on point. They should have the hammer thrown at them if there are issues within their company.
My feelings are similar with these manufacturers. Apple can suggest, demand, visit & threaten all they want or don’t want. It’s not their job to change how other people’s companies run. I don’t care how much money they have in the bank.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:45 AM EST reply Recommend (18) Flag actions
Couldn’t disagree with you more. Every company has a responsibility to ensure that the products they’re selling are produced in an ethical way. No company has more power to ensure that than apple with their massive profits.
That aside, Apple themselves produce reports claiming they are doing the right thing and very closely monitoring their suppliers and enforcing regulations upon them. Seems that was nothing more than a PR piece.
Whether its apple, or one of their suppliers, apple is still exploiting people. Ultimately, so is anyone who buys an Apple product.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:13 AM EST reply Recommend (56) Flag actions
Or basically, anybody who uses any piece of technology.
Or dresses in inexpensive clothing.
We are all exploiters.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:19 AM EST reply Recommend (31) Flag actions
On some level, but it’s important to note that many people are still completely unaware that many Western companies exploit workers like this.
I can assure you that the average person buying an iPhone has not heard about the suicides, or Foxconn for that matter.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:14 AM EST reply Recommend (9) Flag actions
If Apple wasn’t an unethical company they would require all their workers to be given the option to join or form unions. The unions could then negotiate better working conditions. It’s how it was done in the west. It is why workers no longer work 14 hours a day in the US and Europe.
Unfortunately the people working at Apple cares more about money than being good persons.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 5:29 AM EST reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
Wow, you want your american companies to swing their weight in the world and change societies? Are unions a welcome development for the Chinese Government?
Maybe your Oil Companies can put some effort into womens rights in the Middle East?
Hmm.. Boeing is supplying aircraft all over the world – they could really change things for the better. World improvement through USA corporate policies.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:02 AM EST reply Recommend (7) Flag actions
And look what’s happening to unions all over the US right now. States governments are passing laws to remove unions ability to negotiate salaries, working conditions and benefits. Wake up! In the next 5-10 years there will be no unions! Just one more thing wallstreet has given to the American people since the economic collapse of 2008.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:25 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Yeah… and look what happens to politicians who think that they can pass such laws and get away with it:
http://www.thegrio.com/politics/scott-walker-recall-why-wisconsinites-should-feel-pride.php
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:26 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“If Apple wasn’t an unethical company they would require all their workers…”
They are not THEIR workers. They work for Foxconn and Sharp and Samsung, in China and Japan and Korea, subject to their laws and rules and regulations.
And the Foxconn jobs are so unpopular that it’s said they could fill 2,000 new positions in a single afternoon, just by pulling in the people on a waiting list.
If you want your petit-bourgeois act to fly, you might try learning a few facts to go along with your opinions.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:01 PM EST reply Recommend (7) Flag actions
Exactly. If an employer is so horrible to work for, not only will no one apply, there would be a mass exodus of existing employees. If you want to kill yourself over your working conditions, that’s a personal choice. It happens in every country in all sorts of professions. If a job is truly ruining your life, you quit regardless of the consequences.
Ultimately, the only people who really know what’s going on at Foxconn, day in and day out, are the employees of Foxconn. Not the media.
Interesting how this story came out right after earnings. You never know the motivations of an ex-“executive”.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:37 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
way to use western thinking in a non western environment. Or even democratic thinking in a non-democracy.
Might as well teach a girl to become a woman using the method a boy becomes a man.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 11:46 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I think you are overreacting a bit.
Yes, Apple has neglected some safety standards apparently but that doesn’t mean their previous work is just a PR stunt that didn’t help the situation. They are now member of the FLA to confirm the results in those reports. I bet Apple is pretty confident in their progress to allow a well established outside organisation to check up on them.
The situation is still far from perfect. Apple still has a lot of work to do. But don’t break down the efforts they already made just because some ex-employees that stay anonymously say Apple could do better without some real data. Especially when Apple has been doing the most efforts from any tech company to actually improve working conditions.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:29 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
I agree that companies should keep watch over their entire supply chain, and that goes for everyone, not just Apple. Look up who actually uses Foxconn and you will see that it is basically all the big players in the tech industry (Acer, Asus, Intel, Lenovo, Nokia, Microsoft, Amazon, HP, Dell, Cisco, Vizio, Sony, Nintendo, etc.) So if you are thinking you are doing the world a service by buying any other tech companies product you are just fooling yourself. Apple just takes the crap for it as they are perceived as the most “high-end” brand of the bunch.
Should it change? Yes, for sure. The problem of course extends from greed, China doesn’t have great workers rights so American companies looking for ways to cut costs are going to exploit whatever they can. Unfortunately in tech you can’t really “vote with your wallet” as there aren’t really any examples of companies not exploiting Chinese labor (And if there is, I would like to know who.)
As for Apple’s recent “PR piece”, I think it is more than that. These reports from the NYT are from
formerApple execs, which would have no knowledge of what has happened internally in the past year.Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:16 AM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
True, but I hope that the West does a better job at pushing China to reform its labor policies. Our only way of doing that is to speak with our dollars, euros, pesos, etc. Apple should do more, but so should we as participants in our nations’ politics.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 11:46 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I agree with you that Apple does have a responsibility to monitor the conditions at it’s suppliers. Microsoft, Sony, Amazon and Nintendo (all major Foxcon clients) should do the same.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:19 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I guess you really want all our electronics made by people that have the same rights as the US worker? I do not think you understand business in China at all.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:46 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
You should amend your last sentence to read ‘so is anyone who buys ’a product’. Apple has probably done more to pressure it’s suppliers than any other company- unless you believe that everything on their supplier web-page is a bald faced lie. Could they do more? Who knows- maybe. Is any other company doing more? No, it seems they’re all doing less. You think the other manufacturing companies in the area are better than Foxconn? No, all reports indicate they have WORSE working conditions, and worse wages. With that in mind, your point is ridiculous. Is there exploitation in Apple’s product supply chain? Sure. But to single out Apple, even though it seems to be doing most out of the bunch (the bunch being every other electronics company out there) reeks of lacking objectivity and having an agenda- as is blaming consumers of specifically Apple products as being implicit in exploitation. It’s childish and naive.
Also, how much weight are we putting on vague statements from anonymous sources? And why did they allegedly say this stuff now, when there’s been increased attention on the issue lately? And why stay anonymous? Why not give more specifics if they actually cared? The accuracy of the story, and the motives can be questioned.
Believe it or not, Apple is not capable of re-writing the rules of global economics. I do hope they use their clout to put increased pressure on their suppliers, but I’m not going to pretend that the solution is easy, or that Apple has full authority and control of these companies.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 12:36 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“If HP was nearly as successful right now, the target would be on them.”
I doubt that.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:31 AM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
Then why isn’t the target on HP, or Samsung or Dell, or any other tech giant that sells electronics?
It’s not like they do any better regarding better and safer working conditions. In fact Apple has done the most efforts lately to improve the situation.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 4:12 AM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
Verify this with citation please.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 5:03 AM EST reply Recommend (7) Flag actions
Why find citation for something a company presumably doesn’t do? That doesn’t make any sense. You think companies hide their efforts to improve working conditions? Wouldn’t it be way more logical to draw our conclusions that these companies don’t publish any real progress reports with the results Apple does?
I can’t find any citation that there is no effort for Coca Cola to brew their drinks on the moon but unless we see some reliable that suggest it does there is no reason to presume that.
Many tech companies share the same workforce and factories to produce their products. And if you google “Samsung working conditions” for example its more than clear they have their share of problems too.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 7:10 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
You clearly say that it is a fact that Apple has done the most. Please supply citation proving that Apple has done more then previously stated HP, Samsung, Dell, etc. It cannot be a “FACT” if no evidence exists that substantiate those claims.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:14 AM EST reply Recommend (9) Flag actions
Better yet, why don’t you post a link to Dell’s public and transparent requirements on worker rights at its supplier factories around the world. You know, like Apple has. HP? Microsoft? Amazon? Do a little work.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:18 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
I never claimed facts pertaining to such. But, I have out of common courtesy done so. Microsoft, HP, Dell, and I couldn’t find anything on Amazon other then go green movement.
Now on to pointing out this wonderful flawed system you wanted to link and I linked in response… Do you really think a site will post negative stuff about themselves? Just because they say they are doing something does not mean they are. To verify fact you will have to have a 3rd party analysis. None of them have this so the “fact” isn’t a real fact now is it?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:34 AM EST reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
This. The FIRST tech company to join FLA.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:10 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Maybe you should read over the very broad 10 obligations? It is a great step in the right direction but this only proves that the criticism is working and forcing them to react. This still does not change ridiculous work hours, minimal/non-existant incentives, or pay. I commend Apple for joining the FLA. Keep it up! :D
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:21 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
at least they are working on it.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:24 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I agree.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:25 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
By the way, joining it January 13, 2012 right before posting the largest profit quarter does seem to scream more then coincidence.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:24 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
The FLA is not the one and only. Other than that, a company does not need to be part of the FLA or any similar organisation in order to have good working practices and conditions.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:10 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
You don’t know the working condition in HP/Samsung/Dell factories.
If you know something, please share.
I’m pretty sure that the working conditions are not that much better but we pretty much don’t know anything about that…
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:40 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Dude, please. HP & Dell, Samsung seems to have their own assembling factory.
This article blames Apple but Apple can’t increase safety or salary or anything, its Foxconn’s responsibility.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:05 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Actually they can and they should. It is one of the great things about contracts.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:08 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Not really.
Foxconn doesn’t just make Apple products. If the cost of doing business with Foxconn rises substantially, then other companies will be forced to go elsewhere.
Apple has done an admirable job of incentivizing Foxconn to improve working conditions, but it can only do so much.
This problem, unfortunately, is systemic to the industry (including Samsung). And it is exacerbated by the unwillingness of the Chinese government to enact meaningful worker protection regulations.
This problem will only be solved when companies transition to robotics-based manufacturing (which Foxconn plans to do).
That will come at an incredible cost to China, of course, but that’s another problem for another discussion.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:27 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
But Apple can demand from Foxconn to improve working conditions or they will eventually move to another another contractor. Foxconn can’t raise the wages, because they’d have to ask more from Apple. But Apple wouldn’t want that, they want the “more” in their bank accounts than go to the workers.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:30 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Apple cannot move to another contractor because there isn’t another contractor that can meet Apple’s production requirements. Everyone knows this, including Foxconn and Apple.
Paying Foxconn more money would not entice Foxconn to pay higher wages. That’s a specious argument on your part. It is likely that Foxconn would use that money to expand its factories or invest in robotics R&D.
The only way that wages increase and working conditions improve is if the Chinese government intervenes on behalf of workers.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:10 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Well there’s Pegatron.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:54 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“It is one of the great things about contracts.”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but contracts are negotiated entities, are they not? If I put in a clause or condition you don’t like, you don’t have to sign it.
And as I said earlier, Foxconn is the largest electronics manufacturer on the planet. Apple is selling every device they can build. Apple can threaten to leave if Foxconn doesn’t do Apple’s bidding… but, when you get right down to it, there’s no place else to go.
Apple knows it. Foxconn knows it.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:44 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Yes, they are negotiated entities. They can go elsewhere and they should. They do not have to use a single manufacturer for a single product. They can divide it amongst other manufacturers to maintain production. Apple has say in these situations and if Foxconn refuses they lose a substantial amount of money and they can’t afford that.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 5:37 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“They can go elsewhere …”
Like I said, much, much, much easier said than done. You don’t really have a clue to the scale of these things, do you?
BTW, since you’re so enamored of contracts, you realize, of course, that Apple already has long-term contracts in place? That they already have billions invested and guaranteed in facility and equipment purchases and upgrades?
You don’t turn those things around on a dime, nor on a whim.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 6:32 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I am going to go out on a limb here and say you are ignorant and I can name 82 billion reasons Apple can leave foxconn in a 8-12 month transition. There is a time when you cut your losses and go to greener pastures.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:48 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
From a Chinese worker’s response to the NYT article reprinted in China:
“If not to buy Apple, what’s the substitute – Samsung? Don’t you know that Samsung’s products are from its OEM factory in Tianjin? Samsung workers’ income and benefits are even worse than those at Foxconn. If not to buy iPad – (do you think) I will buy Android Pad? Have you ever been to the OEM factories for Lenovo and ASUS? Quanta, Compaq … factories of other companies are all worse than those for Apple. Not to buy iPod – (do you think) I will buy Aigo, Meizu? Do you know that Aigo’s Shenzhen factory will not pay their workers until the 19th of the second month? If you were to quit, fine, I’m sorry, your salary will be withdrawn. Foxconn never dares to do such things. First, their profit margin is higher than peers as they manufacture for Apple. Second, at least those foreign devils will regularly audit factories. Domestic brands will never care if workers live or die,” another users wrote a comment posted by Caixin.
As it sounds like Foxconn is leading the pack, I’m not sure that it is time for Apple to “cut their losses.” And it definitely sounds like the only “greener pastures” are the those created in your imagination.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 10:52 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I can’t help but pull out some of my hair when I read ridiculous posts like this. First, let us point out that comparison of consumer end and manufacture end is irrelevant. Allow myself, a graduate in business management, to enlighten you and others on foreign trade and how manufacturing contracts work.
Let’s create our own company USA based. We have designed and developed a neuropathic wrist watch. You sense the time and not see it. We are now pushing this product for mass production. I need to find manufacturers to build the parts. You find some chinese ones and enter into a contract. The contract has a lot of fancy words relating to trade laws and tort laws. But the important part is the appropriation of material, services, procedures, and product. While the manufacturer owns the factory and employs the workers. You own the material, procedures, and product.
This is where it all gets miss-understood by people. You as a company are held accountable for your manufacturer. Your contract will evolve over time to incorporate new laws and when issues arise. So to say that the company does not have say over the factory is wrong. Contracts have amendments and if both parties fail to agree then the contract is voided.
Apple has say over “THEIR” factories. By “their” it is implied use and not ownership. You can have an office but does not mean you own that office. Apple should maintain themselves in other countries as they would here. This is an unwritten rule of ethics.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:17 AM EST reply Recommend (13) Flag actions
+1, dudebro.
I hate when people make the argument about other companies’ products. Yeah, Foxconn manufactures stuff for other companies too. But for the reasons listed above, they do it in separate factories. The violations we’re hearing about all came from Apple’s factories, largely because Apple is so relentlessly aggressive in pursuing cost reductions with its manufacturers. The article explicitly states that HP and Intel (and I think Dell…can’t remember, it was a long article) don’t do that.
Moreover, the “everybody’s doing it” argument is defeatist. That line of thinking is the reason there hasn’t been any substantive research into replacing coltan with other materials. Just because an injustice is pervasive doesn’t mean we don’t have a responsibility to repair it.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 6:44 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Why shouldn’t people make the argument about other people’s products? Seems counterproductive to single out one company, when clearly a mass policy from many companies at once would have more of an effect.
Since you think it’s “only Apple”
http://www.globallabourrights.org/reports?id=0034
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:27 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Never said it was only Apple. Only said that the reports we’re hearing about come predominantly from factories manufacturing Apple products. There is no doubt that the entire industry profits on abusive labor practices. But there is also no doubt that Apple commands a supply chain whose scale far exceeds that of any other company. And since they’ve been so vocal about how much “better” they are than their competitors when it comes to labor rights, they deserve the added scrutiny, and the added publicity when their claims fall flat.
Yes, a concerted effort by all tech companies would be wonderful. But that isn’t what happens when you say “hey dude, back off Apple. Everybody uses cheap Chinese labor”. What happens is you dilute responsibility for the moral failing.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:37 AM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
“But there is also no doubt that Apple commands a supply chain whose scale far exceeds that of any other company. "
That’s a big hammer… and a huge achilles heel. You’d think the mighty Apple could just say, “Make it better, or we walk.”
Problem is, walk to where? Foxconn is the largest electronics manufacturer on the planet. Apple is selling every device they can build. They can threaten to leave… but, when you get right down to it, there’s no place else to go.
They know it, and Foxconn knows it. The threat is empty.
Not to mention the minor assumption that anyplace else would be any better.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:10 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Your are wrong. Production can be divided amongst several smaller manufacturers to meet supply demands. This will undoubtedly cost more for Apple but they can afford it. No assumption made about other places being better. They will be better because Apple would incorporate it into the contract. Your vision my friend is very narrow.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 5:48 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I think Apple’s recent joining of the FLA should help that.
Maybe other tech companies will be fine having a third party audit their process now that a competitor is doing it?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:23 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
One of the largest reason tech companies don’t use 3rd party is due to exposure of trade secrets.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:32 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Man, how do you hold your head up w/ that heavy ego of yours?
At the end of the day, I still disagree with you in this respect: The contracts are all fine & dandy but I’ve been in many a situation where, when the boss decides to come in, it’s time to clean-up, sweep up & hide the rat traps until they leave.
I doubt this isn’t what many of these manufacturers do. Apple folk come on by to check things out because they heard of this & that occurring. The manufacturing folk show them around the pretty part of campus, “hey, look at our lovely cafeteria!” Apple sees a lil something they can fix, requests it & goes home. Then they open up all the closets & 14 underage workers fall out & go back to making someone’s iPad.
Apple & other companies can only do so much before we must really start getting on these manufacturing companies much much harder than we get on the people asking them to put together their product.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:33 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Do you do business in the Communist Country called China? Do you abide by their Government Rules, not the US. Do you create contracts with this Communist Government that follows its own rules? Yes a US Company can put it in their contract but how is the world can it be enforced? Chinese Government will not let it be enforced.
That is were EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD is wrong. Communist China does not have to follow any US Law. It is their country and the standards are different. This article by NY Times is wrong it was not investigated deeply. Do you think the Chinese Government would allow that?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:39 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Gamestop and Foxconn are incomparable
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:26 AM EST via mobile reply Recommend Flag actions
Being a former Store Manager, it ain’t that far off. Slightly higher pay in an extremely expensive state (NY), few breaks, expectations that are beyond reachable & 70+ hour work weeks but only getting paid for 40. At least they get a cot to sleep in.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:23 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Apple is making a ridiculous amount of profit. If it were willing to part with just a small fraction of it to allow the suppliers a bit more profitability too, it could be the case that there would be slightly safer conditions.
The sad thing is, I remember reading multiple times that Foxconn is one of the factories with better conditions.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 4:17 AM EST reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
Is it not a bit naive to think that if Foxconn would receive more money, that they would use it for the betterment of their staff instead of just improving the bottom line?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:14 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Apple could contractually stipulate that work conditions be improved in order to receive this extra pay.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:17 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
The problem is indeed with companies like Foxconn, but they are doing what is required by their customers. Apple has made huge profits and has billions of dollars in the bank, while the people that produce their products at the lowest cost possible are working in bad conditions. So yes it is Apples responsibility to ensure working conditions are safe, especially if they are making billions of dollars because of it. The same goes for HP, Sony, MS or whoever.
The GameStop example makes no sense here, GameStop isn’t a supplier to Nintendo/MS/Sony, it is a customer.. That is a completely different situation.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 5:39 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I wasn’t comparing supplier to provider, I was comparing situation to situation. Look past the technicalities of the example & take a gander at the overall point.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:37 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Which is still insanely flawed.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:51 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Opinion noted. Nobody’s jumping out of GameStop’s windows, yet, but being a former Store Manager, I’ll respectfully disagree.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:59 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Are you joking? You’re comparing the working conditions at Gamestop to those at Foxconn where people are willing to commit suicide in order to get their message across? What’s it like on Pluto anyway? Fuck me.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:50 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
You mean the MSFT Xbox assemblers who are willing to commit suicide to get their message across? Because the suicides at the Apple assembly plants were individual acts with no political statement behind them.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:56 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Suicide is a statement!
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:58 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
The suicide rate at those plants was lower than the US national rate. So I guess the statement they were making was that they were unhappy, but not as unhappy as americans?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 11:01 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I remember that article about explosions at two Gamestop locations because of poor ventilation.
Oh wait…
Buddy, the mishaps at Foxconn happened on the Apple assembly lines, so in those cases the responsibility falls on Apple as well as Foxcon. In fact, Apple, as the customer to these manufacturers, has say in the policies that govern the manufacturing processes. The customer (Apple) obviously wants to spend as little as possible in manufacturing, and being lax on their working condition policies is their way of cutting corners. They certainly bear responsibility.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 12:05 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
yeah, you grabbed the moral high ground , well done.
So from now on people are not responsible if they get someone else to do the dirty work.
seems fair, you just better hope that kind of logic never gets applied to your homeland…..
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 5:00 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Xbox is also made by foxconn, is the workers making the xbox in better working conditions? I don’t think so. No one says anything about MS ever.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 5:48 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
The point is the iPhone contract is much larger than the XBOX contract so Apple has more weight and could change things if it cared.
All the companies COULD and SHOULD do something, Apple is just the one with the greatest opportunity to. Maybe use 5% of that 90-something billion in cash to do something worthwhile.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 12:16 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Wait – you think Apple could use their weight to improve conditions at the plant that is assembling XBoxes but not Apple equipment? Sorry but you’re crazy. Apple won’t be able to audit such a plant, even if they wanted to.
Posted on Jan 29, 2012 | 1:04 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
If you actually read the NY Times article, it mentions that HP does not drastically squeeze suppliers on price like Apple does:
“However, independent monitors and suppliers say some act differently. Executives at multiple suppliers, in interviews, said that Hewlett-Packard and others allowed them slightly more profits and other allowances if they were used to improve worker conditions.”
Apple has the clout and money to make REAL changes in supplier factories, but Apple only does PR lip service. I would not be proud to make $13 Billion in profit this way.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:22 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
If apple didn’t swing its weight around so heavily and demand such tiny margins, the factories could afford to “monitor themselves.” But since apple demands they make the products at nearly zero profit or they lose their business, they pinch every penny by lowering standards.
If apple charged $250 for the iPhone all those workers could have better life. But us Americans don’t care about the workers, we want our cheap technology.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 12:14 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“People need someone to blame & why not one of the most successful companies in the world right now. If HP was nearly as successful right now, the target would be on them.”
No it wouldn’t. The target would still be Apple. This is a “religious” war. This is a war driven by egotism and exploiting that egotism for click$$$.
Posted on Jan 29, 2012 | 1:46 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
So you recommend fixing a problem with a patch?
You wouldn’t need netting if the working conditions improved.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 11:58 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
LMAO as if
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 7:48 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Extremely unlinkely – Apple doesn’t make the products, it sub-contracts them. Its profits would never be spent on its sub-contractors, only its own employees and any acquisitions. It could demand that the supply chain improve its practices, but thats about it – the only way things could get better for the workers is if Apple takes a cut and accepts an increase in cost and somehow does not push that to the consumers of its devices.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:49 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Everyone is totally wrong about Apple should give Foxconn more money. It will not go to the workers and I does not matter if Steve Jobs riseses from the Dead and demands it. Foxconn has CEO’s, Managers and Government overseer. The worker is nothing to them and there is nothing Apple, Dell, HP, Samsung or any other company can do.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:48 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
They can do something and are obligated to do it.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:53 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
With like 90 billion in the bank they could stomach a cost increase of like 1 or 2 percent and do some good in the world.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 12:18 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Apple just announced recent changes targeted at improved working conditions. “Former” executives would not have knowledge of these efforts being real or a PR stunt. Why? Because these changes at very recent. The truth of the matter is that all of Apple’s competitors (some of which are Apple’s suppliers as well) are doing the same thing. People say Apple had more power to affect change, but if Apple were to break relations with their suppliers then they would simply shift to contracts with Apple’s competitors to give them the advatage in manufacturing and nobody would criticize them until they became the dominant player.
I do hope Apple’s new initiative is real and can change things but historically labor law changes have come from within a country through the organization of the work force and passing of labor laws. Nobody has ever affected such change from half a world away.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:23 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
You don’t understand, if apple broke relations with their suppliers, the suppliers wouldn’t find someone else, they would all kill themselves because Apple is like half their business, at least
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 12:20 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
There truth in that. The suppliers would simply lay off any unneeded labor, those folks would starve, and the. The suppliers would be able to lower working conditions because the demand for work (any work) would increase.
Like I said, the only way labor conditions will change in China will be the same way they changed in every country during their industrial revolution. It will have to come from within. No company is going to be able to enforce change on their suppliers any more than your employer can dictate how much allowance you pay your kids.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 12:47 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
For one this is China. A Communist Country run with an iron fist. 2nd any US Company that pays a Chinese Company will have to pay the Chinese Government and that Chinese Company. That Company will not give anything to the worker or worry about their conditions. They can not form unions, they can not demand worker rights. What world are you all living in?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:35 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
US Companies can enforce a “No shirt, No shoes, No service” technique in dealing with their manufacturers. Yes, even in COMMUNIST CHINA!!!!
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:56 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Not if they wish to continue to serve the Chinese market. Apple goes out of its way to avoid antagonizing the Chinese government, for example they always refer to ‘Greater China’ and never ever refer to Taiwan by name.
Apple can’t tweak the Chinese government without losing access to what will clearly be the most important market for their products over the next 20 years.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:58 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
You obviously fail to understand what the greater china actually means. It is a coined term, placing greater before a well known, to imply and the surrounding areas. It is not meant to empower or favor china. They will not need to tweak the government. They improve the manufacturer.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 11:08 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
You do not understand what China is about. It is a communist country. They work for their Government. All people are equal except the Leader and his party. China is Communist and will NOT let APPLE OR any US Company dictate how they should treat their workers.
Think about this if Foxconn tried to implement giving their employees more money, the masses would riot, it would be unfair to the workers at other plants and the Government WILL STEP IN. China does not need to let any US company into their Country. They opened it but told everyone they will follow China’s Law’s not another Country.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 6:42 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
No – you’re missing the point. The mainland chinese government likes to maintain the polite fiction that Taiwan is still a part of the same country (one china). Apple’s communication policy adhere’s scrupulously to China’s preferred approach. Apple never mentions Taiwan directly, this isn’t accidental.
Posted on Jan 29, 2012 | 1:07 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Seriously? I’m all for better conditions for workers, but these references to “Apple” factories have got to stop. Apple isn’t the only company capitalizing on cheap Chinese factory workers. And I can gurantee you that the factories pouring out HP, Dell, and the other American companies’ products are no different in respect to the treatment of workers and concern for their safety.
By all means, take Apple to task for these issues. Just don’t leave the several other players out sitting on the sideline with a free pass.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:03 AM EST reply Recommend (14) Flag actions
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:08 AM EST reply Recommend (21) Flag actions
So an exec at HP says “suppliers tell them when they have been bad”, and that’s it? Does that mean HP terminates those suppliers? I doubt it. If Hp allowed a supplier more profit, that means they didn’t spend it on improving worker conditions; it means they earned more profit. If HP allowed them a higher gross margin, it might be a different story, but HP has a history of very agressive cost cutting, so without evidence of how well their suppliers treat their workers, I wouldn’t believe it.
When an article like this is published, it would be great to also provide an example of how another similar company (like HP) has audited their suppliers and stopped doing business with ones that don’t treat workers fairly. Otherwise, it looks like just another hit piece.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:41 AM EST reply Recommend (6) Flag actions
The most important part of that…
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:09 AM EST reply Recommend (6) Flag actions
As the article (and the NYT piece) clearly states, Apple is “notorious” for their demands from suppliers. It’s about how they’re aware of poor working conditions, but don’t do much about it – no one is saying what you’re implying. Apple’s humongous profits have to come from somewhere.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:09 AM EST reply Recommend (5) Flag actions
1. I hold Apple to a higher standard than other companies. I do this because Apple holds themselves to a higher standard. I expect them to “Think Different” to solve difficult problems.
2. Apple has profited the most (BY FAR) from these practices.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:14 AM EST reply Recommend (25) Flag actions
I thought the high profit was mostly because of the shrewd part purchasing decisions. You know, like Tim Cook is famous for.
And you decide to single out the one company that tries harder? That is your criterion for criticism? Never mind all the others, they don’t even try?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:23 AM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
Some of those “shrewd part purchasing” decisions mean decreasing the profit to a minimum for suppliers, who then try to cut corners and thus endanger the workers.
And you’re right – all the companies that profit with no efforts to change the way things are responsible for this, not just Apple.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 5:57 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
That’s a masterful attempt of blame shifting. Surely it is the responsibility of the supplier not to shaft his staff?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:16 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
responsibility falls to both. read my post from previous day.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:19 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
But hasn’t Apple exactly been doing this with their auditing practices?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:46 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Yes, auditing is one of the first steps in the correct direction. It is sad though to think they didn’t start doing this ’til ’05.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:55 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“Shrewd part purchasing decisions” = demanding lower prices on parts at the expense of the workers who make the parts.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 12:22 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I wouldn’t hold a company by their marketing slogan. Apple’s first and foremost interest is money, and as long as their public image is largely unaffected by the unethical treatment of their workers they won’t do anything about it.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:34 AM EST via mobile reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
They are already up to higher standards than other tech giants. Apple has done some serious efforts to improve working conditions. They still have a lot of work to do
I don’t see what profits has to do with it. Apple has great profits because it’s sells well. That doesn’t mean it their profits are related to how they threat the people that make the products.
Besides, throwing money at a problems like these often doesn’t solve much. It’s the effort these companies while doing audits , inspections, training, increasing safety standards… that matters.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 4:32 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“I don’t see what profits has to do with it. Apple has great profits because it’s sells well. That doesn’t mean it their profits are related to how they threat the people that make the products.”
This doesn’t make any sense? Their profits are so high BECAUSE their manufacturing costs are so low. Apple’s sales would be just as good if their products were made in America, just their profits would be lower.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 6:36 AM EST via mobile reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Romulus, their manufacturing cost is low, partly because of the economic realities in Chinca, but also because they spend billions in securing parts in advance, then manufacturing millions of the same form factor, with the same parts, thus benefitting from the economics of scale.
The profit that Apple makes is not because they are not paying Foxconn enough money for their services.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 7:53 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Buzz.
actually its not because they spend billions, its because they threaten boycott the supplier if the price is not as damanded and or if they supply anyone before them, if at all.
Apple uses its cash to beat companies over the forcing them to lower PRICES in order to get the orders.
Apple also OWNS some of the more costly equipment to make sure they get it and nobody else
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 5:06 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“Apple’s sales would be just as good if their products were made in America, just their profits would be lower.”
Or retail prices would rise, which have a direct impact on sales. Probably both.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:52 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Profits come from markup value. Markup value is the difference from creation cost and consumer cost. Creation cost is to include services (employees and such), R&D, and manufacturing.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:00 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
In the media and general public, Apple gets credited with many successes that are really industry-wide achievements or successes, so it follows that Apple would receive much of the blame for industry-wide transgressions.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:45 AM EST reply Recommend (9) Flag actions
Not really. This is strange fallacy existing only in your mind.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:23 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Like what achievements?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 7:23 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I agree. While increasing the safety standards should be an ethical responsibilities for any company, calling Foxconn factories Apple factory when it produces other products (such as Microsoft’s XBox, where the recent mass suicide protest occurred) seems disingenuous.
Calling attention to this serious issue is necessary to rectify the situation. However, look at Greenpeace and its “Green products” criteria – people will take a look at it, but soon finds out their “scale” is completely arbitrary and targets Apple just because it’s newsworthy. This completely destroys their credibility and at least I will no longer trust them. Similar problem happened with Consumer Reports and their “Not Recommended” rating over the “antenna-gate” issue with iPhone 4S. Yes, it gets them attention, but it’s a one-time deal that will ruin their reputation.
It’s very unfortunate that all of these issues have some grain of truth to it, ant it SHOULD be addressed – but this type of attention-whoring is distasteful. I hope Verge (which is my top favorite tech site) will be above what lesser sites like Gizmodo does on a daily basis.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:46 AM EST reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
Not to mention how they chose a phone with even worse signal loss as they’re best phone.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:54 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Yes, considering Foxconn does manufacturing for both of the other companies you just mentioned and many more.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:22 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
It’s up to the costumer, both my Razr and Optimus 3D were manufactured in Brazil.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 7:23 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Exactly, which is why Apple should also be pressured to supply browser choice on OSx and iOS devices like Microsoft has to with Windows.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 7:49 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Uhm I am confused here. Browser choice has what to do with labor practices at supplier factories? Also you do know that you can install any browser you want on OS X? As for iOS there are other browsers available in the app store…
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:59 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
It was in response to the below indicating the things ARE NOT fair but the top dog is attacked first to bring about change. Apple now for raping humans, Microsoft before for giving away IE for free integrated into Windows.
“Seriously? I’m all for better conditions for workers, but these references to "Apple" factories have got to stop. Apple isn’t the only company capitalizing on cheap Chinese factory workers. And I can gurantee you that the factories pouring out HP, Dell, and the other American companies’ products are no different in respect to the treatment of workers and concern for their safety.”
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 6:04 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
You don’t that for a fact.
You don’t know that the working conditions are as bad as the ones in Apple’s factory.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:44 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Fine, I don’t know for an exact fact, but I feel like a pretty decent logical leap can be made here.
The fact is that every Chinese laborer makes very little and/or works in considerably less than ideal conditions. I understand Apple has influence over the industry, but it will require a majority of the companies standing up and saying they will not tolerate the poor working conditions and pay of these laborers. And when the pay levels rise and conditions get better these companies will move their labor to some other country with a weak economy and start those employees at even less.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 7:36 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Modern day slavery?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:04 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
It just works.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:37 AM EST reply Recommend (10) Flag actions
…and if it doesn’t, it gets the hose again.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:41 AM EST reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
Modern day China.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:47 AM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
Bingo. More specifically, the anachronism of 21st century technology built with 18th century labor practices.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:25 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Modern day capitalism.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:58 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:38 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Apple wanted to be number one. Well, when you are number one, there is only one place left to go… And the reason why Apple is getting singled out here is because they are the biggest. If a story changes Apple Policy for the better, the chances that other companies will change are now higher.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:12 AM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
So one of the solution will be that Apple will throttle down to be #2.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:10 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Sorry, but I have a hard time swallowing righteous indignation from anybody reading and/or commenting on a website dedicated to the latest and greatest gadgets. You want to weep for the poor Chinese factory worker? Fine. Throw away your smartphone, laptop, and anything else you own which is made in China.
If you’re not willing to do that, that’s fine too. Just don’t get on your soapbox and start bitching and whining about how Apple is evil and blah blah blah.
Most of us suffer with first world problems like “the barista screwed up my latte.”
Puhlease.
We’re all part of the problem. Deal.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:28 AM EST reply Recommend (17) Flag actions
Or, purchase a computer and smartphone while 1) being aware of where they came from and demand action. 2) Reward good companies with your business. 3) Communicate with the company and ask them where their stuff comes from. 4) Spread awareness.
Or really, any number of things. Why does it have to be “Accept it or become an ascetic”?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:31 AM EST reply Recommend (21) Flag actions
Who do you suggest, buddy? It’s a rare thing, an electronic product not made in that part of the world.
Hopefully, some Apple shame will start to push the whole industry out of 19th century employment habits…
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:16 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
1- You can never be fully aware of the situation cos you re not there..
2- No company is “good”.
3- Companies will always lie to a degree if that means more money.
4- The only awareness you can obtain is that if these gadgets would be manufactured in the US or another western country they ll cost a lot more. When you know that and you ve dedicated one moment of sadness to those poor workers, it’s time to turn on your smartphone or console. And have fun.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:41 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
There are very few things that we can purchase these days that don’t abuse some part of the world or the environment. Your tube socks, your t-shirts, your appliances. Cups. Glasses. Gas in your car. Lightbulbs. Pretty much look at anything around your house and know that it’s been produced in China in economic slavery, is destroying the environment, and likely both.
Foxconn is disneyland by comparison, which I’m not saying to defend Apple, but rather noting there are far bigger issues in the world.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:49 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Demand action? From whom? And what action would you like to see happen to ease the Western social consciousness? Articles such as the one published by the Times, which is referenced in this Verge post are designed to elicit a pretty typical emotional response — and then we all go back to our lives.
(As an aside, I have problems with the Times article; anonymous sources, ex-Apple employees and one guy suing Foxconn. Yeah, okay, not saying that what they claim isn’t true, but what axe do they have to grind here? And why this article now? Because Apple is ginormously successful? Is this just more first world guilt served up as a panacea to remind us to remember the poor Chinaman as we scroll a finger across our brand new iPad? Eh. Whatever… I guess.)
It’s easy to throw rocks at the guys sitting on top of the mountain (Apple) and try and make them responsible for something which is symptomatic of our society, which they are not.
I’m not sure what you’re getting at here with all of this “awareness” we’re supposed to be spreading. Perhaps it’s my cynicism and age showing through, but I’m a realist, and no amount of politically correct slogan-speak does it for me anymore. It just doesn’t.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:28 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
“Deal” doesn’t mean anything.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:02 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
i dont think the average consumer really cares.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:39 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
You’re probably right. But they do care about what’s going on with Lady Gaga & the Super Bowl.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:16 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Sadly you’re right. As long as that’s true, and we all continue to want more and to any less, that will never change :-(
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:21 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
The ironic thing is that the type of person who would want to begin a campaign of advocacy and awareness are Apple customers.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:45 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
So…everyone?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:38 AM EST via mobile reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Chinese labor practices = this years antennagate.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:39 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Chinese labor practice concerns is not something that will go away or be improved by holding it correctly.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:46 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
And when and if it will go away it won’t be cos of Apple or any other company. The change will come from China itself transforming itself in a developed country with workers rights etc. Then it will be time for companies to move to another place with less strict rules. And it all will restart again.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:45 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
But these are not Apple factories, it’s Foxconn. I am not sure how can Apple dictate it’s own rules to them.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:49 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Um, because they are paying them?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:55 AM EST reply Recommend (6) Flag actions
But that’s not actually the way it should work. Workplace health and safety should be government regulated, applied as a uniform standard for a given country. Safety practices shouldn’t change depending on who you are selling your product to.
Ultimately this is something for the Chinese people to work out with their government.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:43 AM EST reply Recommend (5) Flag actions
Apple is by far Foxconn’s biggest customer. If Apple wants to dictate, it can dictate.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:17 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
On the other hand, if Foxconn actually wants to spend a bit more money for the sake of worker safety, Apple won’t stop them either.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:33 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Doesn’t change the fact that every company they’re supplying can do their part to force better standards. It seems like Foxconn won’t change by them self, so they need some pressure, and who’s better to put some pressure than their biggest customer?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 5:46 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
No, but they (Apple) certainly make it difficult by squeezing the production line as hard as they can to reduce costs and increase their own profit share,. They could easily part with some small section of their “record breaking profits” on the proviso that Foxconn improve working conditions.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:14 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I’ve always found discussions like these distasteful because they don’t involve the groups who really matter: the Chinese populace.
All of this posturing is basically a bunch of decently well off people going “hey Chinese worker, yea, you. Why don’t you work less hours and therefore make less money to support your family, so I can feel better about myself when I buy your products?”
One could of course argue that these people are capable of decisions and that their current occupation is better than the alternatives, but why really care about their lives when our fragile sensibilities are at stake here?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:59 AM EST reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
I think so. While I don’t think I would want to work in that kind of condition, this boils down to China’s industrial safety issue. I really hate the stench of self-righteousness around this issue.
Do I feel guilty about buying an iPhone? Hell no.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:43 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
You only mention one company (HP). A list would be nice.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:00 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Do you know how mega companies sources products? Let me tell you how.
Make a product for the mega company with the most stringent quality checks. Comply to a shit load of labor and work condition rules (to cover the mega company’s ass when shit hits the fan). Haggle prices hard so that profits for manufacturers are down to 10% profit or less. Refuse to pay for purchases for the slightest quality problems.
Off load said products for 3-4x purchase price at the american market.
….
PROFIT!
When shit like this happens, just blame the factory since the initial working condition checklist was already set as a requirement.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:16 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Not all Chinese companies mistreat workers. ZTE was founded by a guy who worked on the line and their employment practices are an example to the industry.
ZTE Equal Employment
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:21 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
A government-enforced labor safety standards is extremely important to give companies that adheres to ethical treatment of workers a level playing field with competitors.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:58 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Talking of labor conditions:
http://www.publiceye.ch/en/vote/samsung/
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:31 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Greenpeace nonsense.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:24 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Does that surprise anyone? You dont keep your margins as high as Apple and those of Foxconn as low as they are by means of fair labour. Apple has a responsibility here, in wake of record earnings quarter after quarter.
Sure, some will say, dont blame Apple alone! Everybody else is manufacturing there. Right. But none of them comes close to Apples margins. Apple could afford to earn less in favor of Foxconn and better working conditions. The situation is a direct result of the price pressure Apple puts on Foxconn.
Sure, even if Apple did take some price pressure off of Foxconn, its unlikely that Foxconn would give the benefit to its employees just like that. But again, Apple has the power to enforce that.
But they chose to sit in their ebony tower, count the dollars and do nothing.
Oh by the way, we’re all responsible too. Especially those who buy apple products. Which includes myself. Its why I decided to not buy apple again before the situation for those producing their “magic” has drastically improved. If everybody did that, we’d see a much, much more humble Apple… but its sort of naive to believe this would happen. i mean people not buying Apple gadgets under these conditions.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:59 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Don’t beat yourself up too much there ;)
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:04 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Does GAP sell american made hairshirts in your size?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:11 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I dont know. GAP doesnt exist where I live. We got our own sweatshop manufacturers in Europe.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 3:24 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“Its why I decided to not buy apple again….”
Look up who actually uses Foxconn and you will see that it is basically all the big players in the tech industry (Acer, Asus, Intel, Lenovo, Nokia, Microsoft, Amazon, HP, Dell, Cisco, Vizio, Sony, Nintendo, etc.)
Guess you’re buying nothing at all…
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:59 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Reading and comprehension doesnt seem to be your strength. Unfortunately, I do not care enough to draw a picture for you. Sorry.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 3:22 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Find the other post I made on the Chinese reaction to the NYT article. Foxconn has the BEST working conditions, and it’s primarily BECAUSE of Apple.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 10:56 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Honestly it seems that you dislike Apple for other reasons and are simply using this as a justification for your prejudice. If two people or two firms do exactly the same thing, then they deserve exactly as much censure or praise as each other – it doesn’t matter which is more profitable.
The logical extension of your approach is that a loss making firm can treat workers like total shit and that’s all good?
Posted on Jan 29, 2012 | 1:10 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
These companies need to be start being held accountable.
And Obama and the EU do ************** NOTHING about this. As Donal Trumph said yesterday (yes I’m quoting him), Obama does **** about China and those jobs should be in the West.
Also, don’t even start pretending Apple is the only one, there are hundreds of court cases running of people who died in Samsung factories, right this day.
All of these companies need to be looked at under a microscope, making millions of dollars on the back of horrible practices.
And no, I don’t care if a gadget goes up 50% or 100% or 200%, if it means people have jobs in the West and we don’t need to hear about the horror stories again, so be it.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:04 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“… and those jobs should be in the West.”
To quote, “The Chinese factory where most iPhones reach final assembly employs 230,000 workers. I just asked Siri how many cities in the US have a population higher than that, and the answer was a mere 83 cities — and that’s total population, not workforce. With an average labor force of around 65 percent of the population, only 50 US cities are large enough to provide that kind of labor pool… and even in the biggest US city of them all, New York, 230,000 people still amounts to almost three percent of the city’s entire population. Can you imagine three out of every hundred New Yorkers on an assembly line, cranking out iPhones every day?”
Not to mention the higher costs, etc.. The only way Apple could afford to build iPhones and other devices in the US would be with an extremely high degree of automation and robotics… in which case those manufacturing jobs aren’t here anyway.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:06 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Tech blogs are to blame also, for not making this an issue.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:05 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I partly agree.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:05 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
….what!?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:07 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
He has a point, although some tech blogs report on these issues, some have completely ignored it. If something is happening in those tech factories and those tech blogs know it, it is their moral responsibility to show both sides of the story.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:10 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I don’t know about that. I’ve been around for a very long time, and these type of issues did pop up once in a while. But to blame bloggers for this? I’m not sure where we can go with that.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:14 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Are the tech blogs not influencing consumers? How else do you suggest Apple feel enough pressure to change?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:35 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
I’m sorry, but I don’t think tech blogs have enough influence on the mainstream consumers. NYT does, however.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 6:59 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I’ve seen numerous articles from Engadget, Gizmodo, and now The Verge about the working conditions. I’m not sure what you are getting at here. Either way, it’s not up to tech blogs to enforce safe working conditions. If they didn’t report on these issues (which they do) they wouldn’t be at fault, but it would be helpful to inform people
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:12 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Apple’s slavery tactics should be mentioned in every Apple story on the blogosphere until Apple does something about it.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:37 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Tech blogs, at least Josh & Nilay, have been reporting on this for some time. There is a reason, not to make light of their plight, why “dead Foxconn Engineer” was made a podcast bingo square.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:18 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
It’s not enough just to mention it once in a while. The Apple factories are the basis for the consumer electronics industry. Apple is the biggest company in the world, its wealth exclusively came from iPod and iPhone built on the backs of slaves in China.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:38 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Apple is not the “biggest company in the world”, not even close.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:21 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Woah, now we’re calling them slaves?!
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:25 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
From all accounts, “indentured servant” would be a more correct definition.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 6:40 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/mr-daisey-and-the-apple-factory
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:22 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Lets be honest, we all have an idea of the working conditions of the goods we purchase. This is not the first time the unsavory working conditions of those whom assemble the products: clothes, electronics, food, etc.; we buy have been brought to the public’s attention and it will not be the last.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:28 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
The things is, H&M and huge textile companies actually DO terminate contracts in a snap, if their supplier is found to neglect their contractual obligations for worker’s rights. But of course that doesn’t apply for tech companies, since setting up a textile mill and semiconductor plant is a bit different, which is why Foxconn and Apple are happily married.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 4:31 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
According to this article, Apple makes about $650 revenue per iPhone. That’s an estimate based on their earnings.
Can they really not afford to bring manufacturing to the US? Even if they took a loss of the extra $65 per unit, they would still be posting a ridiculous amount of profit.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 4:08 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I’m confused a bit. Isn’t revenue basically just the sale price of the iPhone? I’d think profit would be a better indicator here. Obviously Apple isn’t receiving $650 in profit on average.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 7:33 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Yeah.. I’m not too clear on this myself. Really late night read…
Yeah.. I’m not too clear on this myself. Really late night read…It costs them between $196 – $245 per iPhone (source). Consumers see a carrier subsidized cost of $199 – $399, or pay directly between $650 – $850. And that’s just the cost of the phone alone – never mind the subsequent app/iTunes purchases.
Yeah.. I’m not too clear on this myself. Really late night read…It costs them between $196 – $245 per iPhone (source). Consumers see a carrier subsidized cost of $199 – $399, or pay directly between $650 – $850. And that’s just the cost of the phone alone – never mind the subsequent app/iTunes purchases.It’s still a huge profit. Even if they lost $200 on each unit to keep the cost the same but made it in the US, they would still make billions considering how much they sell.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:26 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I think you have it mixed up. The net profit they make on the iPhone is big yes, but at an additional $65, that’s a hefty proportion. In addition, $65 is on the low, theoretical side. The practical reality of the US REACHING that $65 mark is much more gradual and expensive. We simply do not have the kinds of supply chains and legislation that allows the neglect and abuse of workers that China has. We actually have to take care of people over here. Unions, benefits, fair wages, protection from potential lawsuits, etc. all amount to much, much more than an extra $65 per device.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:04 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Ah, if the high cost meant they lost $200 – $300 per unit (see my reply to darkcrayon above, it would still be billions in profit. Even a dollar or two per iPhone translates to millions of dollars. If they kept jobs in China and just gave the manufacturer those millions with the stipulation of better working conditions – they would still make a lot of profit.
I won’t kid myself though – Apple as a company has a responsibility to its shareholders to maximize profit, so it would most likely drive up the price of the iPhones rather than keep them steady.
Sometimes it seems like China’s more capitalistic than the US.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:32 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“If they kept jobs in China and just gave the manufacturer those millions with the stipulation of better working conditions…”
You give me millions more if I promise to do better??? Okay. Me promise!
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:15 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Ok, say they took a loss of $1 per iPhone. That’s ~$800 million per year, at least. They could contractually stipulate that the $800 million is to be used to install better ventilation, buy safer chemicals, etc.
A couple million per year could go to hiring a committee of US citizens who oversee these efforts and make sure there’s compliance. They’d have to live there, sure, but even a salary of say $80,000 lets you live more than comfortably in China.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:43 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Wow, it is not like it is new, I remember reading the same articles (minus the former executives part I think) talking about the working conditions surrounding the iPod manufacturing.
And in a month or two Apple will reveal the iPad 3 and/or the iPhone 5 and nobody will care anymore, again.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 4:30 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“The core of the problem”
See what you did there ;)
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 4:30 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Eh eh, and it stems from a fundamental conflict.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 12:52 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
English is not my native language so sorry for the bad language, it’s not intended.
I think this is a significant example which shows the arrogance of the First World and in my opinion it’s not even about Apple at all. NYT article clearly states that First World companies should intervene and regulate Far East manufacturing partners because companies like Foxconn doesn’t care about the welfare of their own workers at all. Unbelievably this criticism is coming from a country that basically invented Capitalism.
It’s a well known fact that rising growth in China is based on cheap labor and “cheapness” is a result of worker exploitation however China is becoming a superpower (if it’s not already) and I believe western world has only left a good couple of years to maintain this “morally higher” position.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 4:40 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Apple is the Joe Paterno of the tech industry. They each had an ethical obligation but didn’t do anything. It’s not about “the wins” (profit), it’s about doing the right thing.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 6:21 AM EST via mobile reply Recommend Flag actions
Why are they only reporting Apple for this when every major tech company is using the same supplier?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Major_customers
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 6:40 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
It makes for a more conflicted comment section- since Apple is a favorite target of people who don’t like the iPhone or think Macbook Airs are too expensive.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 7:37 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Even though they use the same supplier, each contract is different. Different tech companies have different demands.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:21 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
yeah right. “We require only the workers who are on 8 hour shifts”. I’m sure that is in those “different demands”.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:25 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Duggets is correct. Your lack of knowledge in Foreign Business but very open mouth shows that you are one of the problems that plague this planet.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:51 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Because Apple is the only company that in the eleventh hour demands a complete and utter overhaul of its design (see: plastic back to glass back for iPhone 4), calls up the factory to make the change that leads to the factory manager calling up 3000+ employees on a whim to work 12 hours/day for 6 days with the incentive being tea and a biscuit. The kind of work that Apple employs and in the volume they employ it make them an easy target. We’re not talking about tennis shoes here. Rubber doesn’t just spontaneously combust like aluminum dust. If Nike calls in and says they’re switching lace colors from black to white, you loop a couple of holes and throw the shoe in the box. It’s wholly and completely different when you’re selling over 35 MILLION devices that require the use of volatile materials and precision installation.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:50 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Well said :D
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:53 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“We’re not talking about tennis shoes here. Rubber doesn’t just spontaneously combust like aluminum dust.”
I take it you’ve never been around the solvents and glues used to produce tennis shoes, have you?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:19 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
The consumer should demand more but needs to know the price will go up. Two words: blood diamonds. Everyone knew what was going on during the mining. And many knew of young Indians polishing stones for rice. Also look what happened to the fur industry. The difference is that everyone think Apple (not Google) does no harm. Grow up. This stuff doesn’t come from magic fairy dust. Remember the industrial revolution? Trees changed in England. You can’t have it both ways.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:24 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
You can’t have ever increasing profit margins like Apple is having without some things staying the same. In this case, it’s the working conditions, health and general noncompliance of their contracted factories. Of course, the Apple faithful will sweep the dirt under the rug, but the dirt (in this case aluminum) is still very much in the air. Time to show Apple that this is unacceptable. People did it with Nike over a decade ago. Time to boycott their products. But of course, that’s not going to happen. People’s iPhones are far too precious than the health of the workers making their iPhones.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:44 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
And since it’s America, since it’s happening overseas, it’s not really happening.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:45 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
And let me guess – you’re not interested in boycotting the other 15 dozen tech companies who use similar factories with similar working conditions… But I’m sure closing those factories from decreased demand due to a boycott is the best solution. That’ll show those people trying to feed their families!
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:47 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Please. Don’t flip the script here because that’s the same thing Apple and the Apple faithful are doing. Radical reform requires radical action. We’re talking about China here, not America.The only thing that speaks over there is money. And for Apple, it’s also money. At this point, we are all aware that Apple is singlehandedly the largest consumer of raw materials for these kinds of devices. Target the top dog. I’m not saying that Microsoft isn’t also a culprit. HP. Acer. They all have shotty work conditions for their factories, but Apple’s factories are the only ones KILLING people. Apple’s factories are the only ones where whole groups of workers are threatening mass suicide. Is that a coincidence? Or do you think that has to do with the fact that Apple broke another record for sales of the iPhone (37M+ units) and the iPad (15M+ units)? Don’t be naive. Tea and a biscuit to trade for 12 hours/day for 6 days is hardly feeding families in China. Boycott, force reform, and not only will those families be safe, they’ll eat too.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:58 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
You mean except for the very recent story where workers at a Foxconn Xbox 360 factory were threatening mass suicide? Please cite your source for your claim that factories building Apple products are the only ones where suicide threats take place.
It seems to me reform would be more powerful with a concerted effort for conditions standards from Foxconn or the Chinese government first, and then ALL the American tech company customers in a combined effort second. Your wording and tone smacks more of Apple bashing than any actual concern for factory workers.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:07 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/9006988/Mass-suicide-protest-at-Apple-manufacturer-Foxconn-factory.html
It’s like the first result that pops up when you search “mass suicide foxconn”. Reform WOULD be more powerful if it was forcing Foxconn or the Chinese government, but let me spell it out for you clearly:
C.H.I.N.A.
That spells “communism.” Apple has an moral obligation on their hands. This isn’t bashing Apple. This is calling for Apple to take a greater stand. Draw a line in the dirt and put their foot down. Gone are the days when Apple can say, “You promise to be better?”
That doesn’t work on my two year old and it certainly doesn’t work in Chinese factories living in communist China… obviously (per this report).
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:17 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
So Apple should help the Chinese because the Chinese can’t help themselves?
Pretty sure that was the thinking behind Western imperialism as well.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:31 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I like your flare… Sadly that is not what he is saying. Unless, of course, you over simplify it.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:40 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Oh, I get what he is saying: We can’t expect the Chinese government to stand up for worker’s rights so Apple, as our leading tech company, should take the higher moral ground, slash their profits for greater worker rights, and set an example for the rest of the industry to follow.
I think it is a well intentioned belief, but I also think that it is a bit patronizing.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 9:47 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I think the only patronizing aspect of it is it is only being pushed at Apple. Let’s push it toward others companies as well. But, Apple is a trend setter. If they do it and flaunt it they will get other companies to follow suit.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:00 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Unfortunately, I don’t think you can expect the Chinese government to do this. One thing China’s never been short on is population, and those who want to make money value human life cheaply. China may call itself communist, but its business practices are so capitalistic that only money speaks loud and clear.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:11 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
“It’s like the first result that pops up when you search "mass suicide foxconn". "
Try a different Google search: mass suicide foxconn XBOX
To quote, “Workers at Chinese electronics giant Foxconn, angry over the shuttering of an Xbox 360 production line in the Chinese city of Wuhan, climbed to the roof of a six story dormitory and threatened to jump en masse if their conditions weren’t met.”
So no, Apple’s factories are the NOT the only ones where whole groups of workers are threatening mass suicide. It’s a problem endemic to the factory, and to the region, as a whole.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:26 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I think that the term ‘suppliers’ says it all. How much oversight of your suppliers can you have before you are running their business? Hardware companies don’t want the headaches of making their own products, the pay suppliers to do it for them. If they have to run the suppliers companies for them they might as well build their own factories.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:02 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
The Chinese government has created this situation and the US is to blame for taking advantage of it true. But the US has been taking advantage of the cheap Chinese workforce for years. If they had the benefits of American workers…..iPhones would cost $2000 instead of $400. The Chinese government has built it’s country on the backs of its people. This is no secret. Welcome to 50 years ago..
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:34 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
You don’t need to study political science/economics (as I did) in order to know that the reason why these companies outsource these jobs. They outsource them because they can essentially get slave labor overseas.
Why make jobs in the US and give benefits to people and higher wages, and lose revenue, while you can pay poor people in China $0.10 an hour and make them work 17+ hour days, no benefits, no unions, and make them sleep in dorms on the campus of the manufacturing plant? They essentially use the poverty and the desperation of these people against them in order to make their entire purpose in life devoted to manufacturing Apple products. No wonder their profits and profit margins are so high. Shame on you Apple.
I, however, don’t want to be a hypocrite, and I need to look into seeing whether or not Samsung does the same (since I have a Galaxy Nexus). All I know is that Samsung actually has a manufacturing plant in Texas. And the US has better labor laws. It’s funny how a non-American company is bringing jobs to the US and the US company is outsourcing jobs.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:36 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
…because Apple doesn’t employ anyone in the US, right? :)
Samsung has been under investigation for their own working conditions. They also outsource tens of billions to China, just like Apple. “Shame on you, Samsung”
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:41 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
It’s time to share the wealth.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:52 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Steve Jobs hearlded china’s business practices. In the Steve jobs bio written by Walter Isaacson, he quotes Steve Jobs. “That’s because regulations and unions in the United States were crippling its ability to remain competitive with emerging powerhouses like China.” . And you add this to the people in china dont even have free speech which isnt even mentioned. Show Steve Jobs lack of understanding of the plight of the average worker. Hopefully with Steve Jobs gone, Apple will be able to turn a new leaf.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:55 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I don’t see what the problem is. According to Steve they’re living the good life.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 11:09 AM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Why about the other clients of Foxconn? Don’t see them getting flakk.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:14 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend Flag actions
I’m all for calling out companies on bad labour practices and educating people about it.
But can we spread the love (hate?) around more evenly?
I have not seen ANY coverage for this in major tech press.
http://www.publiceye.ch/en/vote/samsung/
Your welcome.
-Fellow Korean concerned about Samsung’s business practices in Korea.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:16 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Has Samsung blown anyone up?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 1:42 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
if you’ve read the link, there are already at least 50 people dead as a result of working in their semiconductor facility.
I’m not saying it’s worse than what’s going on in Foxconn, and that we need to stop caring about Foxconn and go dog pile on Samsung now, I’m just pointing out that it’s happening everywhere and it’s getting tough to fight Samsung in Korea alone for their massive dominance of the country’s economy and therefore the stranglehold on the politics and the press.
We need universal international condemnation on such practices whether it be in China or Korea or related with Samsung or Apple or Walmart or whatever.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 4:16 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Samsung is far darker than you might imagine. I’m shaking heads at people who cheer on that particular conglomerate as if it is any different – it’s probably worse than most.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 7:04 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
When Apple m akes $200 profit of each iPhone, I would think if they would make $197 instead, letting Foxconn have $3 to improve safety, then Foxconn would be the world safety model!!!. (Samsung makes less than $20 profit on a smartphone, just for comparison). It’s called GREED, folks !
Written on my Nokia N9, with “made in Finland” sticker. Just like my former N8. :)
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:08 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Nokia phones are made in Korea too, which they seem to be treating the employees fairly.
I don’t know the details but Nokia seems like one of the companies who’s better at less talk and more work approach to actually improving the work conditions and creating fair work environment. (Please correct me if I’m wrong)
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 4:25 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
NOT the ones that say “made in Finland”. Nokia makes phones in China, too (I’ve seen N8’s bought from Amazon with “made in China” on them), but I won’t buy those.
And that’s not even my main point. What’s Nokia’s margins on smartphones compared to Apple’s? If it’s anything like Samsung’s (or maybe even lower, considering they’re posting huge losses quarter after quarter..) you can’t put them in the same boat with THE biggest tech company in the world, that just posted the all-time record for quarter profit.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 6:14 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I wouldn’t say the amount of profit one company makes is a good measure for their goodwill as demonstrated above by my comment but I do agree that Apple could take more out of their profit to put towards taking care of their and their partners’ employees.
I was just commenting that Nokia seems to be better at locally managing manufacturing rather than just outsourcing all the jobs to China to exploit its lax regulations and cheaper workforce. (Which I repeat, if it is a wrong idea I have, then please correct me. Was your comment supposed to mean that Nokia’s plant in China is no better?)
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 6:19 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I think telling Apple to put pressure on a supplier in a foreign country kind of steps over the “sovereignty” line that we as countries are supposed to respect. What we are really saying is Apple shouldnt believe in the laws and guidlines set by another sovereign state. Thats a pretty big precedent to set is it not?
Countries are sovereign. They have their own laws, norms and values, economic conditions and living standards. To presume that we should impose our standards on them (no matter how well meaning we meant to be) is really like spitting in the face of the leader of another country (A super power at that).
The fact is, we in the west have had our “industrial revolution” where we abused and exploited our own. America has 300+ yrs of slavery to boot as well. Our companies like Exxon, Lloyds, Barclays Bank, HSBC etc. are still living off the proceeds of this scandalous period of time. However, America wouldnt be the America it is today without the ridiculous level of exploitation of human beings. So its a bit rich of us to deny the developing world their chance to reach our standard of living by denying them the ability to exploit their labourforce in the way they see fit (and the Chinese are far more humane than the Americans ever were to black slaves and other poor workers!).
All the US can do is respect the game. And be as diplomatic as they can be without being insensitive to the sovereign right of a country to run its own affairs. Unless you like being hypocrites?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 2:51 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Interesting post.
1. Countries are sovereign, but I haven’t seen anyone asking for the government to change any laws, only HR and safety policies within a independent company to be raised above the minimum required for that country. It would be violating laws if they asked them to go the other direction. Apple does not have to use company X, Y or Z and can negotiate any terms they wish, if it’s within the laws of the country.
2. Yes, America built itself on the backs of slaves, then low wage immigrants and now a mix of illegals and “exported poverty.” We send menial tasks overseas to those living in slums. We still exploit those in other countries and will do so for a very long time; it’s called intellectual property and we own a shitload of it. We don’t plan on ever letting them climb up the ladder.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:08 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
a) There isnt company x,y & z . There is only 1 supplier that can do what Apple needs them to do in terms of volume and speed. Apple have also “invested” billions in Foxconn for new factories etc… They have to make it work some how.
b) Foxconn are not breaking any laws in their country. That is the key. Apple can insist that every worker is treated to their standard, but that would be like UK workers insisting that our US suppliers have 25 days holiday a year instead of 10! How would that go down in the US?
The US is different to the UK and the US different to China. People always say things like, “oh each worker gets 25p an hour” thats terrible. But how much does a house cost in China compared to the US? How much is a loaf of bread? How many hours do most people work anyway?
You have to factor in the whole environment of a country before you can compare what is good and what is bad. Therefore it follows that the government of that country has designed laws for that environment. It makes sense to let foxconn be within their countries laws , norms and values, and not our imposed standards.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 5:30 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
The solution is simply this: with great power comes with great responsibility. Noblesse oblige.
Apple and everybody else who can do something about it should do something about it, especially since these tech companies are benefitting from this abusive practice. Indifference is no different from the ones doing evil.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:12 PM EST reply Recommend (3) Flag actions
Best Post So True
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:32 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Nothing new to see here, cut-throat capitalism at it’s finest. America is going down, and is the one doing it to itself.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 3:31 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
I’m very surprised that Apple’s champion MG Siegler has nothing to say on this issue. He’s been crowing about the record profits as if Apple was going to cut him a check or something. He never mentions the human costs involved with such gargantuan profits. It’s all ok as long as his iPhone 5 is on schedule for later on this year.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 4:36 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
it dont matter bc people are so vampire glamored by apple that it dont matter what they do or what they let happen. its great that THE VERGE is reporting things like this. but the apple fanyboyism is at a all time high right now. they cant do any wrong, they can realease some shoe strings and charge 50.00 for them and they will sell 50 million. bc they say they have superior ‘DESIGN’
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 4:51 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Sounds to me like it also doesn’t matter what Apple does, people will hate them and hurl silly insults at people who happen to like their products. "fanboy" "would buy poo if it had an Apple logo on it!" etc. Perhaps you should take a longer look at yourself.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 5:25 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Sounds to me like it also doesn’t matter what Apple does, people will hate them and hurl silly insults at people who happen to like their products. “fanboy” “would buy poo if it had an Apple logo on it!” etc. Perhaps you should take a longer look at yourself.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 5:25 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Not only is Apple guilty of this, but so are virtually every technology company.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 6:52 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Should we send emails to tcook at apple.com now?
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 8:56 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
You guys should definitely read the newer article — Comments from Chinese Readers
one of the comments:
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:41 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Everyone is missing the Point. The Chinese Government is not going to enforce any of the US standards. The Chinese Government is responsible for the working conditions at Foxconn. Can Apple or Dell put pressure on the Communist Government of China? Are you nuts? Does Apple have to do business in China, hell yes where else can they get components. Remember all things were made in India, Taiwan, Vietnam and other 3rd world countries that do not have workers rights. Why do you think US Manufacturers moved oversea s to these 3rd world countries? Americans are IDIOTS.
Posted on Jan 26, 2012 | 10:44 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
No, Foxconn is responsible for the working conditions at their plants. The Chinese government does not mandate bad working conditions; they establish minimum working conditions.
Apple is free to negotiate whatever terms they want as long as they don’t violate laws of the contractor’s country of residence.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 10:42 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Made in (not America) has a huge cost to our economy, human rights and environmental health.
1. We need a strong economy to have jobs for 7 billion people
2. Human rights violations increase harm and suffering to our species and should not be tolerated.
3. We are made of the environment (soil, plants, food or soil, plants, animals, food) and pollution causes sickness and suffering reducing life quality. Go to the cancer wing of a hospital and visit the people dying of cancer and then ask yourself if you want to keep eating pesticides on non-organic food: whether or not cheap electricity is worth the high cost of air pollution from coal power.
I wrote about the high cost of low prices of Made In (Not America) on my blog : http://priusblack.blogspot.com/2012/01/made-in-not-america.html
I also respectfully requested that “the Verge” write an editorial on this subject of “Made in 3rd World”
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 1:47 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I call BS. Sure, Apple and Foxconn cannot be responsible for the shortcomings of the Chinese government. But, they are aware of this and are cashing in on this flaw. It’s impossible that Apple did not know. Their contract should have outlined the labour cost and they aren’t idiots who cannot do some simple number crunching. This is also true for every company out there who are outsourcing labour in China.
Apple is under fire because they rake in billions to the point that they can rival Exxon. Part of those billions result from cutting corners. Also, they have enough cash to muscle Foxcon around to be “ethical.” Noblesse oblige.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 3:55 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Wrong article lol. Either way, my point still stands.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 3:58 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
You’re absolutely right.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 10:44 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I’m a Westerner living in China and I think you have to first and foremost understand that China is a communist country and with the overpopulation problem, a life here is not as highly valued by the Chinese government compared to the Western society. The problem does not lie with Apple but with Foxconn and the Chinese government.
Foxconn don’t care about their workers cos they’ve probably got a whole line of people outside wanting a job. If one leaves, Foxconn are spoilt for choice and Chinese people would rather work in the harshest environment to earn some money for their family than do absolutely nothing at all. Also from Weibo (Chinese Twitter) it looks like Foxconn factories are better equipped and better audited than their competitors:
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/25/chinese-readers-on-the-ieconomy/#more-156095
And the Chinese government don’t care either cos there’s just way too many people in China. All they care about is how to grow their economy and that’s by getting as many foreign companies to invest and do business with China.
As for Apple, I think that they’re genuinely trying to do their best, but instructing and controlling a Chinese company in China is going to be challenging and difficult to keep it transparent.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 | 5:09 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
- it’s really the government’s responsibility in any country to look after working conditions. in china’s case, their government is more concerned about the economy and bringing in foreign money. china doesn’t care about improving working conditions, because that would increase the manufacturing cost in china for every industry from clothing, electronics, toys, etc. and push manufacturing factories to other countries like vietnam, thailand, india, etc.
- foxconn are the direct perpetrators of worker abuses. not apple, not any other electronics company not china’s government. nothing is forcing foxconn to treat workers badly. foxconn makes billions in profit annually, they have the resources to treat their workers better. the mistreatment comes from the company’s culture. there are historical tensions between the Taiwanese and the chinese and the guy running foxconn thinks of his workforce as a group of animals.
- where i think apple makes things worst for workers is that they put a lot of pressure on manufacturers for higher quality in manufacturing, high manufacturing volume when product demand is high. i’m not sure that negotiating for lower cost manufacturing contracts effects workers directly coz i doubt that foxconn would pay individual workers more if foxconn had better margins.
- i think apple is trying to make things better, they are probably do more than most other tech companies with products made in china. but i don’t think apple see this as there number one concern especially when the situation appears to work for them. i think apple could do more to make things better, but i don’t think apple is as responsible as many haters like to believe.
Posted on Jan 30, 2012 | 1:59 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
To all those folks “spouting nonsense” about how awful Apple or other companies that use Chinese manufacturing all, you should read up on these two articles:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/01/30/the-apple-boycott-graphically-explained/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/01/29/the-apple-boycott-people-are-spouting-nonsense-about-chinese-manufacturing/
While some of things that have occurred are tragic, it seems it is very easy to cherry pick specific incidents to support any premise against any company using Chinese manufacturing. But put in context, it becomes obvious that the USA could do a better job in its own manufacturing plants with regards to worker safety. I hope that one day Chinese workers are able to legally organize (they cannot today). With such a large population, the demand for jobs is going to be high and that is why factories have the upper hand on the workers, but as wages and the standard of living continue to increase, these workers will begin to demand better and the government will eventually get behind them to avoid a revolution (think Russia circa 1917 or France circa 1790). These are the sad pains of industrialization, its China’s turn in that transformation from largely-agrarian society to largely-industrial society. I hope the measures taken by companies who leverage Chinese companies in their supply chain has some positive effect, but real change comes from within and sadly takes time.
Posted on Jan 30, 2012 | 8:35 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
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