Monologuist Mike Daisey has won wide acclaim for his show "The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs," now playing in New York City. In it, Daisey narrates his complex relationship with Apple products: once a self-described "worshipper in the cult of Mac," he wondered about the origins of those sleek objects of desire. He followed the story to China and was appalled by what found; that trip formed the basis of his monologue. This American Life picked up the story there, and the episode's second act fact-checks his claims, drawing on, among other sources, interviews with Foxconn workers.
This American Life goes inside an Apple factory
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Except it is not an Apple factory. It is a Foxconn factory.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 4:39 PM EST reply Recommend (18) Flag actions
Silence breeds consent.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 4:46 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
Exactly. Guys, these conditions have been going on for years. Why it took the success of iDevices to make this an issue absolutely baffles me, but to say that these are Apple’s factories and Apple’s working conditions is absolutely absurd and lacking in journalistic integrity. I would’ve expected better from NPR.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 4:48 PM EST reply Recommend (10) Flag actions
Maybe you should actually listen to the episode of TAL before you disparage it or NPR. BTW, TAL is actually a PRI show not NPR. They make it very clear that this is a Foxconn factory that produces products for Apple as well as many other electronics companies. They even make an effort weigh the pros and cons of sweat shops in developing countries. So yeah, try to do a little more than read the headline before you comment.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 4:57 PM EST reply Recommend (6) Flag actions
They do state that other companies make products there, but this explanation is more like “Dell and other companies,” and then it gets brushed aside. I think part of the problem is that, in the very way Mike Daisey talks about resistance to acknowledging what’s going on when it’s clear and obvious, it’s easier for him to see this as primarily an Apple issue. I mean, if he really wanted to dig deeper, he’d find very little in America that he could enjoy with a clear conscience. Only recently have tech companies even acknowledged the issues with “conflict minerals,” and it’s not even clear to me how many of them actually keep them out of their supply chain (these minerals are used to create Li-Ion batteries, amongst other goods) . This problem is way bigger than Apple, and the story really doesn’t acknowledge that.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 5:21 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
It isn’t Mike Daisey’s intent or responsibility to “tell the whole story.” in no way does he claim this to be objective or only the doing of Apple. The story is about HIS experience in following something he loves to the place it was created and seeing the reality of that creation. He does pontificate why Apple, who is notorious for the details, would permit these kinds of conditions, but he’s more concerned with his relationship to this process and to these people as a consumer.
It’s not an issue of being around chemicals (though that’s certainly a part of it) but about making all of these devices (including the iPhone 4s I’m typing this on) by hand. And that while these employees are assembling these devices by hand they are repeating the same movement for 12-16 hours a day without being rotated to another task. This practice yields a sort of “carpal tunnel” that’s extremely damaging and extremely preventable.
Apple is by no means the only company that hires Foxconn, and it’s not the author’s intent to vilify them on their own, but is instead a chronicling of his experience in “looking behind the curtain” of one of his favorite things, Apple products.
Posted on Jan 10, 2012 | 1:03 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend Flag actions
True, but Apple has no factories per se so they have to go into a factory that it employed by Apple.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 5:15 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Except…they predominantly manufacture goods for Apple. And Apple claims to perform regular supplier audits to prevent exactly these kinds of abuses (see here: http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/). Yes, these factories create hundreds and hundreds of thousands of jobs, but there’s a way to do that responsibly too. It means maybe Apple doesn’t generate 25% yoy growth, but it’s doable. Apple’s not interested in doing things the right way unless they have a cost incentive.
(typed on my macbook pro).
Posted on Jan 10, 2012 | 7:42 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
— “Except…they predominantly manufacture goods for Apple.”
How can that even work? Foxconn are the largest tech component provider in the world, they also manufacture the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, Wii, Amazon’s Kindle and tons of other products far outnumbering Apple products. The last time I checked (but can’t find the source to verify), they made near 40% of the world’s tech components.
Here’s a list of major companies they work with, I highly doubt Apple’s products outnumber the others:
Acer Inc.
Amazon.com
Apple Inc.
ASRock
Asus
Barnes & Noble
Cisco
Dell
EVGA Corporation
Hewlett-Packard
Intel
IBM
Lenovo
Logitech
Microsoft
MSI
Motorola
Netgear
Nintendo
Nokia
Panasonic
Philips
Samsung
Sharp
Sony Ericsson
Toshiba
Vizio
Posted on Jan 10, 2012 | 9:24 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Sorry, poor wording. They are the primary manufacturer for all Apple products. And the factory in Shenzhen that Mike Daisey visited only manufactures products for Apple. And for whatever reason, employees at the factories that manufacture products for those other companies weren’t committing suicide.
Anyway, my point was that theoretically Foxconn’s redeeming quality is the sheer amount of jobs it creates and that it maintains a higher standard for worker safety than the average sweatshop. All I’m suggesting is that in the US, we would demand more of a company. If it’s not good enough for here, it shouldn’t be good enough for there.
Posted on Jan 10, 2012 | 4:41 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Um, This American Life is PRI, not NPR.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 4:49 PM EST reply Recommend (8) Flag actions
Thanks, fixed.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 7:44 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Ive listened to the first half and he makes it well known its not just apple devices made there. Im real glad that this american life (which is an amazing show that everyone should listen too) covered this. And im glad the verge picked this up. Its an issue that more people need to know about and if its only left to corporations it will never get fixed.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 4:55 PM EST via mobile reply Recommend (4) Flag actions
It’s mentioned that other companies make products there, but the only name I caught was Dell before he moved on.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 5:23 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Truth. This is an issue and unless ALL companies are treated the same in this respect, the situation will never improve.
The fact is a very low percentage of gadgets on this site that aren’t made in this or similar factories.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 5:33 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Slavery is GOOD for capitalism, if you do not like low wages you must be a communist! Now get back to consuming the planet with your overpriced short life cycle iGoods.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 5:34 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
Hope you’re posting this with some amazing telepathic abilities which you’ve used to directly tap into the internet.
Posted on Jan 10, 2012 | 12:33 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Running Ubuntu on 10 year old hardware. LULZ
Posted on Jan 10, 2012 | 5:04 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
This podcast is an amazing insight as to what we (most americans) really choose to ignore. It shows the sad truth of what others sacrifice so that we can have our nice possessions.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 5:58 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
The problem with all these comments are that they are nearly worthless coming from WORTHLESS people. I want you to imagine a life of eating barely cooked rice about the size of your fist as your main meal for the day. Nearly up to a decade ago, this was a typical life of so called farmers in China & most of the Asia.
Definition – “…so called farmers” means that most people weren’t able to do anything other than just kick dirt around, therefore they were called so called farmers. Their only hopes are for someone in their village to do something great, so that they can have some type of job to do.
When the manufacturing started to come to China, it brought hope and EDUCATION to the masses. This was a godsend to those people. First, the money they made (which to us is pennies a day) was nearly 100 times more than what they were earning in the village. Second, most all of these manufacturers create a massive size towns just to house all of their employees, which creates a massive society that is moving all of these people forward towards progress, where they will continue to grow themselves and their family. Finally, has anyone seen when these manufacturers close down. What happen to all of those people.
Also, all of us have multiple gadgets and electronics in our household (not necessary an Apple product). Who would object to paying twice what they paid for their stuff? Because, without the Asian market, less then half of us would be purchasing these items. Therefore, more then half of Asian people would be wishing that they could be abused in the sweat shops.
You Haven’t Lived It, then you can’t say SHIT.
I’m sorry that I have to be this way, but I’m extremely tired of so many people giving their opinion when they don’t do SHIT to help any one.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 7:10 PM EST reply Recommend (7) Flag actions
Are you just unable to process complicated situations and emotions? You’re pushing a logic whereby it’s not only a-okay to exploit people any way you see fit, so long as they may have had it worse before you came along; you’re actually lashing out at people who might report or comment on abhorrent labor conditions. Starvation and poverty are terrible, but that doesn’t mean sweatshops and labor camps are above scrutiny. That’s deranged.
Posted on Jan 10, 2012 | 4:21 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Oh God. You really need to re-read what you said and really dwell on how you think of other HUMANS.. You are a sociopath if you really believe that these “employment” and factories are really for the betterment of these people’s lives.
Posted on Jan 12, 2012 | 3:04 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Flight of the Conchords have made the definitive comment on this topic (as they have on so many others).
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 7:10 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
Yeah, Radiolab is NPR, not TAL.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 7:25 PM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Actually… Radiolab is (and has always been) produced by WNYC. Not NPR. That’s why you seen no mention of NPR on their website.
http://www.radiolab.org
>> just being picky <<
Posted on Jan 10, 2012 | 11:32 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
To add an actual structive comment, it was quite an enjoyable listen. You’d think out of all the things Steve Jobs would of wanted to innovate, it’d be manufacturing. I hope to one day see a brighter future for these people.
Posted on Jan 09, 2012 | 11:41 PM EST reply Recommend (2) Flag actions
The biography on him covers his multiple attempts to innovate in manufacturing, and the failures each time. (Hint: He wanted rainbow colored robots and white factory walls).
Posted on Jan 10, 2012 | 1:05 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
— “You’d think out of all the things Steve Jobs would of wanted to innovate, it’d be manufacturing.”
The biography details at least one occasion (could be more I can’t remember) when Jobs put pressure on Obama himself to make it possible for companies to bring back manufacturing to the US.
Posted on Jan 10, 2012 | 9:45 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
This is nothing new. This “scandal” was trumpeted several years ago.
Bottom line: It makes good headlines because Apple are a big, successful company but Foxconn is actually one of the better employers in the industry. Do you suppose Samsung, HTC, Motorola, ZTE or Huawei are any better? If you want cheap consumer goods, you have to get some people who are willing to work cheaply. The companies are making moves to improve it but this is mostly by increasing the amount that is made by machines. Is a crap job better than no job at all?
Posted on Jan 10, 2012 | 4:02 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
It’s not really about money at this point. It’s a bout basic workers rights and safety. They want to not have to work 16 hour shifts for months on end. At least one man died after working 34 hours straight. They want to receive medical attention when there is a work related accident. In the TAL ep there is a story of a man who had his hand crushed in a press or something. He received no medical attention. His hand healed wrong and is now useless. They want to be rotated on what jobs they perform to prevent repetitive motion injuries. In the TAL ep they mention tons of 25-26 year olds who had been working at Foxconn since they were 15-16 and doing the same job the entire time. Because of this, by the time they are 25-26 their hands are so destroyed from repeating the same motion every day that they can no longer even hold a glass. And of course they can also no longer perform their job so they are fired. Are these basic things to much to ask?
Posted on Jan 10, 2012 | 10:33 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I hope that at least this American Life is no longer a “worshipper in the cult of Mac”. It’s stupid to begin with and furthermore Apple’s has the “best” track record on modern slavery so far. Maybe Nike is closing in but then again they are partners.
Posted on Jan 10, 2012 | 8:35 AM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
How about not caring if it’s an Apple factory or not and just be glad that someone acknowledges this issue?
Posted on Jan 10, 2012 | 7:35 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
I’ve never been so disgusted by the logic of some people, especially on some of the commenters on this topic. Is it so horrible that people deserve regular hour work weeks, proper healthcare and labor laws? Is it really?
Posted on Jan 12, 2012 | 3:06 AM EST reply Recommend (1) Flag actions
Aiyee the spirits are stirred up.
Kiplings ghost is whispering in my ear “The White Man’s Burden.” Donald Rumsfeld dropped by to say: “The war will be short. Everybody wants to be American. Once we show them …”
My fathers spirit is asking, “What is he talking about. I worked until I was 70, 6 days a week with no health insurance and no sick leave. I never had sick leave in my entire life.”
My mother’s ghost is wondering, “I went to LA in 1941 when I was 16 with $4 in my pocket and lied to Lockheed to get a job bucking rivets on B-17s. I told them I was 18. I worked 14 hours a day in my business with your father in Reno and worked 32 hours straight once.”
My old college friend from Hong Kong is reminding me, “You Americans have it so easy. No matter what you will never starve.”
My friend from Taiwan told me of his father living in a cardboard box when he was 13 in Hong Kong. Eacape the mainland until his triad rescued him because his father was Koumintang.
So many ghosts with cautionary tales of applying your identity to others in other lands, about how they should be. The spirits remind that life is very short and when you are old you start to understand that blood and pain and struggle teaches only those who struggle themselves. Only experience teaches. There are no shortcuts. The white man is a fool talking to the wind.
Posted on Jan 14, 2012 | 5:36 PM EST reply Recommend Flag actions
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