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Edit: typo – “… half-rationalize away repatriation, and if you weren’t…”

8 days ago on Ill-gotten gains: how many museums have stolen objects in their collections?

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There are war crimes which are recognized by International bodies.

Further, applying today’s legal statutes (like those in Egypt) to something that happened before those statutes or even the county’s current government was in place is just silly.

The Geneva Convention (the relevant one) was created in 1949, which is absolutely after the German occupation of Poland (and the Holocaust) ended.

So, were the actions we now consider war crimes specifically recognized as war crimes by Nazi Germany during the period in which they controlled Poland? If the answer is “no,” then we can simply echo your “When Egypt was part of Britain it was perfectly legal because they were under the same government.” statement to write off punishing a lot of bad stuff the Nazis did as “just silly.”

I use an over-the-top scenario because it’s easy to dismiss and half-rationalize away repatriation, and you weren’t simply misreading your own apathy as objectivity, you’d be able to easily defend a self-consistent position when talking about Nazis. For example, I can very easily do so when defending the First Amendment (the gov’t shouldn’t limit anyone’s free speech, not even neo-Nazis’).

8 days ago on Ill-gotten gains: how many museums have stolen objects in their collections? 1 reply

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I’m aware that you made more nuanced arguments in other comments, which is why I didn’t rebut them. It just seemed that this particular comment, esp. within the context of the comment it agreed with (essentially, “no foreign cultural artifact that Britain possesses should ever be returned, cuz we gave back the colonies, so f—- off”), was far less nuanced.

That being said:
1. Cultural artifacts have always been treated in a fundamentally different way from simple property, by both destroyers and preservers. Probably most of Baghdad has been flattened at least once the Second Gulf War. But, it’s still notable when the Baghdad Museum got ransacked, or millennia-old temple ruins get obliterated, not simply because a manmade structure of such-and-such square footage was razed or looted. Similarly, countries are demanding the repatriation of ancient cultural artifacts, not simply such-and-such poundage of archaeological artifacts from the past in general.

2. The artifact-repatriation argument is not an economic one. It’s not “back-payment.”

3. Ditto.

4. See rebuttal 1.

“You cannot undo all the wrongs of the past”
Strawman. Also, this statement breaks down into near-nonsense if we, for example, apply to criminal prosecution.

“especially when it comes to ownership… where countries have split into two and both might claim ownership to something.”
I realize that. Thus, I didn’t dismiss your generalization wholesale, but pointed out that the quoted statement, at face value, is an overgeneralization (not a diametrically incorrect falsehood).

“Museums should do their best to curb looting and pilfering today, but you cannot undo history in its entirety.”
This is a non-argument. Just because we cannot “undo history in its entirety” does not, in any way, justify adding “thus, let us completely ignore the past.” Just because we cannot solve all past murders does not mean that police departments should simply wipe the slate clean and start anew.

It’s essentially saying “We can’t completely fix everything in one swoop, so f—- it all.” It also makes the situation wonderfully convenient for European colonialist powers of the last few centuries: “Welp, I’ve already got the bling, so I’ve decided that we should just let bygones be bygones.”

8 days ago on Ill-gotten gains: how many museums have stolen objects in their collections? 2 recommends

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I’m gonna go ahead and Godwin this discussion to illustrate the utter absurdity of this “spot-on” argument:

When Germany occupied Poland, or when Japan occupied Manchuria, it was perfectly legal to [insert horrendous Nazi/Imperial Japanese act] under the gov’t of the time. Thus, past is not prologue. Past is just, like, soooo yesterday, psh.

8 days ago on Ill-gotten gains: how many museums have stolen objects in their collections? 1 reply 1 recommend

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There are no plans to return them, and I don’t have a problem with that. Why should we? We gave all the colonies back, but this stuff is ours.

Ah yes, you “gave all the colonies back.” I mean, next to this monumentally gallant generosity, what’s a bit of petty theft, like the looting of thousands of priceless cultural artifacts, right?

The reason that spoils were taken in war was to have the defeated side help pay for the cost of war to the victorious side.

That’s a gross and terribly convenient overgeneralization. You ignore the countless cultural artifacts that were simply sacked as a matter of course during invasion and occupation. Please don’t pretend that every museum piece that was “exported” was invoiced as a war reparation.

8 days ago on Ill-gotten gains: how many museums have stolen objects in their collections? 2 replies 3 recommends

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just one of those words that folks with unearned moral superiority like to use.

knowing that homosexuality is a sin.

[facepalm]

8 days ago on 'Geography of Hate' maps racism and homophobia on Twitter

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Commenter 1 accurately describes racial distinction between names tested in the study.

Commenter 2 pretends the distinction is merely about “dumb-sounding names.”

Commenter 1 clarifies that “non-white sounding, thus dumb-sounding” is pretty racist.

Commenter 3 pretends Commenter 2 is accurately describing the study, conveniently reverses the false equivalence, complains that his newly invented “dumb-sounding, thus non-white-sounding” statement is OMFG PC bulls—-(!!!). Classy.

8 days ago on 'Geography of Hate' maps racism and homophobia on Twitter 1 recommend

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http://kotaku.com/5910857/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is

Being white means that, all other things being the same, things come easier to you. You’re ignoring that “all other things being the same” bit.

8 days ago on 'Geography of Hate' maps racism and homophobia on Twitter 2 recommends

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Justifying “Christians have undergone systemic persecution” using “certain sects have persecuted” (to be clear, I’m not sure if you’re actively trying to justify it this way) is a bit like saying “men have undergone systemic persecution, because black men have undergone systemic persecution.” It’s particularly damning that persecution of certain Christian sects in the US has been at the hands of other Christian sects (e.g. persecution of Irish Catholics by Protestants).

8 days ago on 'Geography of Hate' maps racism and homophobia on Twitter

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Even if we pretend that your “No True Scotsman” fallacy isn’t a fallacy, your contention that “most Christians weren’t REALLY Christians” undermines your “Christians have been persecuted a whole bunch in history” claim, since most of those Christians could very easily have been fake Christians.

8 days ago on 'Geography of Hate' maps racism and homophobia on Twitter

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Translation: If we dismiss “much of what is taught of Christians persecuting” as fiction and exaggerate persecution of them by other people, then Christians have been persecuted far more than they’ve done so.

8 days ago on 'Geography of Hate' maps racism and homophobia on Twitter