Over the course of reviewing the Samsung Galaxy Note 10 Plus, I spent quite a bit of time evaluating DeX. With the Note, Samsung introduced apps for both Windows and Mac that would let you have a sort of desktop interface for your phone on the computer you already use.
My take on these DeX apps is straightforward: they’re not great. If you just use them for simple tasks like texting, copying and pasting small bits of text, or dragging and dropping a file or two, it’s fine. Pushing any harder than that is likely to be a recipe for sorrow, however, as things tend to get laggy pretty quickly. I think that’s more the fault of the desktop software than the phone’s hardware, but regardless, it’s slightly disappointing.
I don’t think that’s a reason to avoid buying the Note 10, which is still an excellent phone. But the experience did get me thinking: why did I and so many others have the objectively irrational hope that DeX would unlock new ways of interacting with your phone?
I think it’s because the idea of making a sole computer sits right next to flying cars in the “this is what the future will be” section of our collective unconsciousness. Phones are already our primary computers, and they are certainly powerful enough to drive a big-screen experience, so why not?
That’s the question I’m exploring in this week’s episode of Processor. To answer it, I dug through my gadget closet to pull out one of my most prized possessions: the unreleased Palm Foleo. It, alongside the Celio Redfly and Motorola Atrix, predated DeX in trying to make your phone the source of truth for your entire computing life.
Even though the Foleo was doomed from the start, it still has lessons to teach us. The most important of which is: if you’re going to go to all the trouble of building a laptop that runs Linux, you might as well build a laptop that really runs Linux instead of one that just tries to mirror your phone.
The main lesson the Foleo, Atrix, and Redfly teach us is that we built a different future than the one we imagined. It’s a lot more convenient to just store data in the cloud and access it via a computer like a Chromebook or an iPad than it is to try to put everything into your phone. The world we built isn’t as cyberpunk as making your phone the ultimate source of your data truth, but it is a lot more practical.
Comments
I’m gonna be the guy to say, "wHaT aBoUt cOnTinuuM?!"
Also, looking forward to watching this ep. Thanks dude.
By storyninja on 08.29.19 10:04am
I guess Continuum is too close to a watered down version of Dex to talk about. I kinda expected it to be in there too but honestly what is there to even say about it at this point? It was an extremely watered down windowless version of Windows tied to a platform that could most generously be described as floundering. It seemed even more destined to fail than the other examples we saw in the video.
By Velvet_Spaceman on 08.29.19 10:12am
I mean dex is kinda watered down itself, like it’s only good for like small files and copy paste stuff…
By popepe on 08.29.19 10:32am
Kinda sorta? At least with the on the box feature set (not accounting for what it feels like in practice) it seems more like an elevated version of Android with the ability to run in a windowed environment and the ability to run linux apps (though if you ask me the ability to run linux apps is never a boon for the average person.) It’s been since its inception more competent than Continuum if for no other reason than it can actually run all the Android apps and they can be windowed.
By Velvet_Spaceman on 08.29.19 10:47am
Really? Sounds like you aren’t using it right. I’m able to do anything I want in DeX. Definitely not copy paste stuff… Though I’m not even sure why you’d need DeX for "copy paste stuff" anyway…
By scoobydooby on 08.29.19 2:43pm
I think the confusion comes from Dieter’s article title vs. the actual article content. The title makes it sound like he’s talking about DeX the "Environment", which yes, is windowed Android and quite capable. Whereas the bit in the article about it only being good for "copy paste stuff" refers to the new desktop DeX apps, which allow you to mirror DeX to your Mac or Windows desktop. The desktop app is what isn’t great for much more than copy/pasting, as once you start doing complex things in DeX via the app, it starts to get laggy. But with a direct connection to a monitor/keyboard/mouse, DeX is just fine.
By drfyzziks on 08.29.19 3:28pm
I dunno, it runs full Ubuntu on it.. That’s pretty darn good for most needs.
(I use it all the time, but only to RDP to my main computer. For that it’s awesome, any hotdesk at my work can become my workstation.. Although I guess that’s not using it to its potential.)
By jY2v8CsvS6TV00g9 on 08.29.19 8:27pm
It’s definitely an odd oversight.
By Nmco8 on 08.30.19 3:02am
Oh I wish Windows Phone (wait was it Windows 10 Mobile at the end?) had worked out. I really liked the system. I liked the Lumias. I like Surface, I’m comfortable and proficient in Windows and Office.
Now I’m in a weird situation with an iPhone, an iPad Mini, a Surface Book (personal) and a Lenovo T480s (work). They’re all individually great but I want that continuation of experience and everything working together feeling. I don’t know if it’s overrated or what because I’ve never really experienced the whole be in the same ecosystem thing but it feels like I’m missing something.
I’ve been considering for a while now to go all-Apple and just switch my laptop to Mac. But I’m unfamiliar with macOS, the keyboards suck and it’s expensive. This is when the iPhone was more easily at the top of the smartphone pile (hardware and software combined).
Now I think maybe a Huawei (current issues notwithstanding) or a Samsung Note 10 or a Pixel may be better than iPhone, at least in the camera. And there’s real integration options with Windows now too.
Either way, I feel like changing something means moving to an unfamiliar system, either from iPhone to Android or Windows to Mac. (I’ve also considered just selling the iPad Mini and the Surface Book and going all-in on iOS for personal use via the iPad Pro but it’s not there yet without trackpad support and really good desktop browser support (better than iOS 13)).
An all-MS solution could have worked out nicely…if only….
Ugh.
By NofanBoy on 08.29.19 10:23am
If you know how to work on one ecosystem, you’ll pick up a new one pretty quick. They are all very similar.
By The_Don_ONEz on 08.29.19 11:00am
Not to seem like a shill for the Apple experience but a lot of the things these systems seem to want to solve seem more seamlessly solved by Apple’s "Continuity."
File transfer between iOS and Mac devices is a breeze with AirDrop (at least if you’re transferring a few at a time,) calling and messaging works great and given that they’re each part of their own apps it feels a bit more native to me, and every once in a while when you hop from doing something on your phone to your laptop and you get that pop up that puts you right where you left off you feel like you just got this incredible taste of a seamless future. Everything overtly feels like it’s meant to work together.
I think the Phone app is really interesting and a step in the right direction for Microsoft, and I have no doubt that it can give you a taste of what the Apple Ecosystem™ offers but from the outside looking in it does look a lot less cohesive with everything being thrown into one app which mirrors your phone instead of the interoperability being distributed throughout the OS through different stand alone apps and such.
Going all in with Apple definitely has its downsides too. You’re way more limited in your hardware choices and more often than not you’re going to do things the way Apple wants you to do them. Everyone’s threshold of tolerance for Apple’s unique blend of quirks is a little different so it’s definitely something to keep in mind.
By Velvet_Spaceman on 08.29.19 11:02am
File transfer for an Android device to Mac/Chrome/WIndows is a breeze. I don’t think Apple has the tight grip on "everything just works" anymore.
By The_Don_ONEz on 08.29.19 11:24am
Given that Dex is shown here as an easier way to transfer files I don’t totally buy that, but I’ve only had the Mac and Android experience and I haven’t used Android with Windows so I can’t say for sure. I just know that quick wireless file transfer are incredibly convenient and not something I’d want to go without at this point.
By Velvet_Spaceman on 08.29.19 11:35am
android to Mac was for years while iOS users had airdrop, a terrible google app that required to be tethered.
just like for years android "had" sms sync via things like airdroid. Yeah, technically you did. It sucks ass though.
his point is great. Going full apple is exactly what he says, easily the most integrated environment, also completely limits your hardware choices and tries to lock you in.
By JesseDegenerate on 08.29.19 12:05pm
At the risk of also sounding like an Apple shill, I have to echo this. For context, I have a MacBook Pro, and iPhone, and a gaming PC (ie. Windows). The first two work together so seamlessly from the beginning, I honestly don’t need to think about it. The gaming PC, which I occasionally try to use for something that isn’t gaming or being a glorified giant hard drive, takes some more doing. I rely mainly on iCloud stuff, including iCloud Drive. The software Apple makes for Windows continues in the grand tradition of being kind of shit.
So, of course I want my glorified giant hard drive syncing with iCloud Drive, right? But, of course the Windows iCloud client doesn’t let you choose where the big iCloud Drive folder is. I had to create a junction to one of my big spinny HDDs so the main SSD wouldn’t get filled up with iCloud stuff a few times over. The syncing is never as fast, some files just refuse to sync because Windows freaks out about file names or doesn’t know what to do with container files. Yeah, I can sync Safari bookmarks with Firefox/Chrome, but the tight iPhone/Mac levels of Safari continuity aren’t remotely achievable. Mail, calendars, reminders, notes? I don’t even bother.
It all culminates in the feeling that my gaming PC, with all its graphics grunt and ample storage space, is isolated from everything else. Even for the Google stuff I use, it just isn’t as seamless. There’s always setup time. Sure, individual apps sometimes sync pretty well (like Chrome), but it all feels like a layer hacked onto Windows, rather than being core to the experience. And I haven’t even mentioned iMessage. I know what it’s like to try to use Whatsapp and the like on a PC/Mac… it’s kinda bleak.
The Phone integration Microsoft is trying to implement in Windows is indeed a great step in the right direction, and I honestly hope it takes off. I have zero expectations that my iPhone will directly talk to my gaming PC in a meaningful way, but I’m okay with that.
Now, with all that said, one thing weirds me out: What’s so difficult about moving files around between your phone and other devices? This is so frequently cited as an issue for every platform, but it feels like a solved problem. Just store everything in the cloud… right? I rarely use Airdrop, because I just don’t need it much. Anything I’m doing on my Mac/PC gets saved to iCloud and is thus available on my phone, and vice versa. Photos, videos, Matlab scripts, source files, audio files, notes, Lightroom presets, Guitar Rig presets, Logic projects (barring aforementioned Windows disliking certain filenames and containers), word/excel documents… literally everything. Google Drive or OneDrive or Dropbox can all achieve this just as well, and in some ways arguably better than iCloud Drive.
I guess this was all about Dex. I agree with Dieter – it feels a bit like an alternate future. The paradigm of having everything local on a single device isn’t really a thing. But, I think Dex is superficially pushing that idea. My guess is that it’s really more about trying to level the continuity playing field. If it allows people to use Whatsapp/Signal/Line/etc. on their computer without fiddling with authentication keys, it’s already a victory.
By Egg7 on 08.29.19 12:29pm
i know Apple users are really tied into the iDevice ecosystem. But let’s not complain about how Windows PC can’t integrate well with Apple services. OneDrive+0365+Android on Windows ecosystem is a great experience. An an overlooked feature of many is how you can wireless project your android device already on Win10 machines with built in cast (Assuming you have a newer Android phone made in the past 3 years). And yes, i know iPhones can project to Macs.
By NoPokyMe on 08.29.19 9:03pm
Let’s see if Microsoft has something new in this space in October…
By Winklemeier on 08.29.19 12:02pm
Soon (sorry I just can’t help myself)
By Velvet_Spaceman on 08.29.19 3:14pm
Yeah I know…the carrot is held just out of reach.
By Winklemeier on 08.30.19 8:43am
Yeah I know the feeling. I was a card carrying Windows Phone fan for a couple years before it got to be too much, or maybe too little is more accurate.
By Velvet_Spaceman on 08.30.19 10:51am
Same, and the Courier concept was so appealing. I’d love to actually see (and hold and use) something like this.
By Winklemeier on 08.30.19 2:16pm
Yeah there were a lot of wildly interesting tech ideas with a lack of follow through and proper execution coming out of Microsoft in the late Balmer period. Unfortunately for me I’ve totally lost my appetite for any wild ideas Microsoft may or may not have as a former Surface RT (cancelled platform,) Lumia (cancelled platform,) and Microsoft Band (cancelled platform,) owner.
By Velvet_Spaceman on 08.30.19 4:34pm
Surface Books aren’t particularly cheap when compared to a MBP (I know, I’ve got a Surface Book 2 as well as a MacBook Pro) – if you’re paying that price, and want an all-in-one ecosystem, you might as well pony up the cash for the Mac.
As for being unfamiliar with the OS – it doesn’t take long to adjust, and you can always run Windows on it as well, either natively or via a virtualized environment like Parallels (which imparts some of that Mac ecosystem integration to the Windows side of things too).
I agree re: the keyboards though. Let’s see what Apple does this fall…
By drfyzziks on 08.29.19 3:31pm
I’ve shied away from running Windows on Mac due to driver concerns with the discrete GPU. I do a great deal of graphics intensive work and I’ve heard anecdotally that the drivers Apple provides for the GPU and other Mac hardware are far less optimized for Windows than for MacOS. This has been enough to make me not even consider a Mac for Windows use.
By Winklemeier on 08.30.19 2:19pm
Unless you really want to go all in on the Apple eco-system I’d say stick with Windows and Android since it gives you far more flexibility than locking into Apple.
I bought and returned a Note 10+ electing to stick with my OnePlus 7 Pro since the only two things that made the Note 10+ better are the S-Pen and the ability to use DeX which still sin’t compelling enough for me to stick with Sammy given the cruft of their Android skin. OnePlus gets me close to pure Android with sensible value add additions.
I do agree that I wish Windows Phone and Continuum succeeded in the market and that was what I used today because it was almost perfect (it had plenty of problems as well).
Unless you really need the horse power or are looking for a more clamshell style I would recommend going Surface Pro (I’m typing on an ancient Surface Pro 3 right now which actually still does a decent job; just lacks battery life at this point of it’s life). Otherwise you can leverage Your Phone to get a lot of syncing going with your Android/Windows 10 combo and if you live in Office 365 it is pretty seamless to move data between devices. Though, if you want a tablet you still can’t beat the iPad (Windows or Android).
I personally use a Surface Laptop 2 + and old Surface Pro 3 (beat around device) with my OnePlus and it works well overall. I’m wishing I would have maybe waited for the October announcement and picked up the newest generation Surface Pro instead of the laptop. Oh well.
By ryanlounsbury on 08.29.19 5:26pm