HDC102

how is a consumer completely screwed over by a game releasing on EGS vs Steam?

They’re missing key features is my point. Mod support is the biggest one but there are others that have been parroted on by others (not my dog so I can’t really elaborate past that).

When a specific, usually celebrity, line partners with a specific store (Walmart, Target, or at a time K-Mart), is that screwing consumers?

Usually these products only exist because these companies approach the celebrities and make it themselves. The celebrities aren’t pulling their sleeves up to make said product. So if Wal-Mart keeps the Justin Bieber cologne exclusive to their shelves I’m okay with that just like I’m okay with Fortnite being a EGS exclusive. Again this was mentioned before.

There are tons of games on Steam without mod support, is that Epic’s fault too?

Who said that? Developers can choose to enable it if they want it’s up to them. They don’t have that option at all at EGS which is my point. It’s not a feature rich launcher.

You don’t want EGS to be competitive, you want them to operate at a loss. Got it.

They already operate at a loss with how much money they throw around. Instead of paying for exclusivity why not keep that money and take a 0% cut for the first 30 days of sales and pass those savings onto consumers?

https://steamcharts.com/app/546560 – whoo boy, Alyx is showing out. Really moving the industry forward for 0.01% of the market. A tree falls in the forest and makes the most incredible sound, believe me.

Stop burying your head in sand. A lot of your points are nonsensical. VR has a TINY market and Alyx is the biggest and most compelling reason to plop money down on a headset that costs close to a grand. It is moving the VR industry forward and anyone you argue with on that will call you a fool.

Whenever someone objectively says "hey, Windows is an okay experience on Steam Deck everybody, So you can install your other launchers now" maybe I’ll agree, but right now, it’s Steam Machine 2.0 and a push to get everyone buying on Steam.

You seem to have something against Valve which is confusing because I never once mentioned the Steam Deck. Steam Deck is completely open to anyone and everyone. If EGS wants to make a Linux client they are free to do so, Valve is not stopping them. A quick cursory glance on Google shows that it is possible to run EGS on the Deck.

Oh, sorry, the last paragraph were a multitude reasons for low reviews of games that fell under the ‘woke’ reasoning you asked for earlier. And like I said, people can keep that garbage on one of the angry gamer or whatever subreddits and call it a day.

Rewrite that part or move on from it because I couldn’t make heads or tails of what you originally wrote.

Not the person you’re responding to but I’ve made comments in this chain that addresses your complaint. You’re free to look at them to see why it has such a low score.

I’ve never argued in favor of death threats. Review bombing is separate from that, it occurs on sites like metacritic with the intention of getting a message across by lowering the overall score of a product drastically.

Why comment if you aren’t going to read through everything?

I concede I was wrong about Titan Souls but my point has always been the following

Why does there need to be a solution for what is essentially a perfectly valid method of protesting bad practices in the industry? I haven’t looked into it much but review bombing in gaming isn’t being hijacked by ass holes upset about race/gender like it is in film/television, is it?

My position hasn’t changed

Potentially but it’s the most effective way of pushing for change. Reviews matter to companies as they either draw in or deter potential customers.

I’m sorry I don’t understand the point you’re making. The difference between 3.4 and 5.7 in 2 years is a result of more people playing the game. If the game was review bombed as you’re implying it would be an 8 or 9 correct? The game is currently rated where people feel it belongs.

Yes there are benefits for the developer that go with EGS. That’s great but the consumer is completely screwed over. There are many features missing from EGS that are present on Steam such as Mod support.

Review bombing is done by users and users are being screwed. How can the EGS be competitive but also fair to consumers? Simple offer a cheaper price at launch. There are many things that can be done that are both pro-consumer and pro-dev but instead Epic Games chooses the anti-consumer route.

, Steam existed for ages, as did Kingdom Hearts and yet it didn’t come to PC until Epic threw money at them. So thanks Epic for growing the PC gaming market as opposed to taking all comers including shovelware that’ll end up in some bulk buy thing. Far from ‘moving the industry forward.’ Or do you mean the Steam Deck?

Don’t really understand parts of this so I’ll respond to what I understand. You aren’t reading what I write because I specifically mentioned Half-Life Alyx as moving the industry forward, nowhere did I mention the Steam Deck (which actually does move the industry forward and I can touch on that if you like). I love Kingdom Hearts I truly do but it’s hot garbage relative to Alyx and using that as your argument for EGS moving the community forward is weak. It’s a dated PS2 game that’s locked to an inferior launcher vs Alyx which is by all accounts system seller. It’s what many feel VR should be and will be. Valve spent a lot of money on this and rather than following the practices laid out by competitors they choose to allow anyone with a VR headset play it. This is pro-consumer. They stand to make more money locking it to their headsets but would rather the industry flourish.

I’m very confused why you bring up the EGS review bombing as being unjustified. My argument since the start has been review bombing is a valid method of protest and nowhere are you convincing me otherwise. It’s stupid to gatekeep content to an inferior platform because you paid for exclusivity. If Epic wants to be competitive they should start with offering a better platform.

Your last paragraph is a mess and I don’t understand (sorry). If you want to try again and be clear I’ll read it.

I’ll reiterate my point just to keep it clear. Review bombing within the video game industry is largely used as a valid form of protest against bad actors.

You’re just proving my point I did not say it wasn’t an issue outside of gaming and the block of text you’re quoting literally proves that LMAO.

Outside of the Titan Souls situation the other two were VALID forms of protest like I originally said as is the Epic Games comment you made further down below. You’re not disproving my point that review bombing is generally a valid form of protest because it is.

Chinese players wanting a Chinese translation and making their voices heard through reviews might not be your preferred method of protest but we’re talking about it, correct?

Sean Vanaman, while I enjoy his work, is a man child. You can’t indiscriminately apply the rules to people you don’t like. He pulled a similar stunt during a game of DOTA where I believe he banned someone. This wasn’t because the individual was racist it was over a simply disagreement in game. Again another valid form of protest.

Open source is the foundation of PC. Epic Games absolutely deserve to get flamed because their exclusivity practices are garbage. You say they deserve no flak because they paid to get the ball rolling but ignore the fact that Valve don’t engage in the same practices. They don’t distribute their games on other platforms that is true and imo that’s okay as I don’t expect Fortnite to be on Steam. But they don’t make exclusivity deals that hamper everyone’s experience and more importantly they don’t make their content exclusive to authorized devices. Valve put out arguably the best VR experience in Half Life Alyx and rather than capitalize on that by making it an Index exclusive they allow anyone to play. That’s the difference between these two companies. One is willing to move the industry forward and the other is looking to move themselves forward. Epic Games absolutely deserve to be flamed.

The linked wikipedia page proves my point actually lol.

Never said it wasn’t an issue outside gaming. You and others seem quick to comment but not read.

Just gonna copy and paste what I said earlier to another individual.

Looking into the reviews over on metacritic you see either a 10 or a 0. This illustrates the fundamental flaw with a number ranking system. The average person will give out those reviews despite the game neither being perfect or complete garbage. Why? Because most of the population aren’t reviewers, all they can do is simply say they recommend it or they don’t and for that reason they reach out to the highest or lowest number. It’s also why most outlets have moved away from traditional numbers and more towards recommendations.

Also want to add it’s incredibly weird that you use the fact they aren’t eloquently spoken in their reviews as evidence the game was a victim. Most people aren’t going to write long winded essays. I mean look at the number of 10’s this game has gotten on Metacritic, why are they a sentence long? Are those fake as well? This only adds to my point that numbers don’t make sense for most people as they’ll simply give it the worst or best depending on whether they liked it.

There were a large number of ass holes out the gate but the game was generally perceived poorly by a large number of people because they didn’t like it.

HFW did not get review bombed… What happened were incels got upset they changed her look but it was not a victim of review bombing.

Let’s clear things up.

There were babies on both side. One side who were unjustifiably upset about woke issues (again don’t know if this is the best word to encompass this but I’m gonna use it) and the other were those upset at the people who were upset (the media and developers). The media and developers weaponized this narrative and made it seem like the only people who didn’t like the game were people who fell into the category of ass hole which completely ignored the legitimate points people brought up.

Looking into the reviews over on metacritic you see either a 10 or a 0. This illustrates the fundamental flaw with a number ranking system. The average person will give out those reviews despite the game neither being perfect or complete garbage. Why? Because most of the population aren’t reviewers, all they can do is simply say they recommend it or they don’t and for that reason they reach out to the highest or lowest number. It’s also why most outlets have moved away from traditional numbers and more towards recommendations.

Also want to add it’s incredibly weird that you use the fact they aren’t eloquently spoken in their reviews as evidence the game was a victim. Most people aren’t going to write long winded essays. I mean look at the number of 10’s this game has gotten on Metacritic, why are they a sentence long? Are those fake as well? This only adds to my point that numbers don’t make sense for most people as they’ll simply give it the worst or best depending on whether they liked it.

I vehemently refuse to believe your perception the game was a victim of a review bomb. The score that the game has currently is an accurate representation of what the game is seen by the majority. Did it have a larger than normal number of vocal ass holes? Absolutely but lets not hide the fact that it was a divisive game and people had legitimate gripes with it. Choosing to lump those legitimate views with the ass holes is disingenuous.

I want to clear up that for film/movies yes there is an issue like I said originally. But for gaming there isn’t. Games that get review bombed are done so because of bad practices.

It’s not though. Maybe to a small scale but not enough to massively impact a game’s score. Unless you have an example?

That was a shit show sure but to lay blame to ass holes upset about Abbey alone is a narrow perspective. People were upset about the story as a whole which is OK. Wouldn’t even call it review bombing, people reviewed it based on what they felt it deserved. I can’t recall a moment in time in this industry where people review bombed a game purely on I guess woke issues (is there a better word to encompass this?).

Why does there need to be a solution for what is essentially a perfectly valid method of protesting bad practices in the industry? I haven’t looked into it much but review bombing in gaming isn’t being hijacked by ass holes upset about race/gender like it is in film/television, is it?

More importantly (sorry forgot to add this) issues like this are common for new generations. Tesla is still having MASSIVE issues with cars they’ve been making for some time.

The issue is not the fact it happens. It’s the way the company deals with it. Ford announced the recall and stopped sales. That’s it that’s all. Elon will act like the victim and people such as yourself (presumably) will try and convince everyone that they’re the problem.